When Jason Stellman former PCA pastor, writer, theologian announced his decision to leave the reformed communion on his blog, his com box was filled with some of the most awful, ungodly things that I have ever read, from people of his former co-religionists! God have mercy on them.
Like a cool drink in the desert, these are the comments posted after Jason's story in Called to Communion, Some of the comments are from his original post which was then withdrawn until re-posting on Monday.
CTC July 24th, 2012 4:05 pm :
Those commenting here for the first time should read our comment guidelines, which will be strictly enforced.
Kevin Branson July 24th, 2012 4:31 pm :
Ditto. Well said. Thank you. KB
Beth July 24th, 2012 4:32 pm :
Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jason!
Annie July 24th, 2012 4:34 pm :
Welcome home. You are being prayed for by people you don’t even know. You will not be sorry you swam the Tiber.
Carol Cross July 24th, 2012 4:37 pm :
Jason,
Thank you for these thoughts. They resonate so well with my own experience. I was a reluctant convert in many ways also – there was no allure for me either – only a strange, somewhat terrifying uncomfortableness. Yet, like yourself, I had come to see the truth of Catholicism. And when that happened, there was no turning back.
It is a great joy to see you here at CTC. God is good and merciful and full of patience towards us, isn’t He? I have kept you in my prayers these past 4 years….
Praised be Jesus Christ now and forever!
-Carol
Pio July 24th, 2012 4:51 pm :
Welcome Home Jason!
Michael Liccione July 24th, 2012 4:57 pm :
Welcome home, Jason. The good news about the Catholic Church is that she’s like a big family. Of course that’s also the bad news, but you seem to know that well, as I have since I returned to the Catholic Church as a kicking-and-screaming college student. And that is why I’m confident you’re home for good, as I am.
Best,
Mike
Brian O. July 24th, 2012 4:58 pm :
Thank you and welcome home. I really enjoyed your conclusion. Well done!
Russ Rentler MD July 24th, 2012 5:03 pm :
Welcome Home Jason! Yes the Church is very untidy, unruly and sometimes downright scary! But it is the barq of Peter launched by Christ himself. Hang on tight, welcome aboard!
Russ
(aka some heretic you used to know)
Dave H July 24th, 2012 5:03 pm :
Jason,
I have been following your story and want you to know that there are many of us who are greatly moved by your courage and sacrifice. I am more than thrilled to see this post.
You and your family are in my family’s prayers. I have no doubt God will bless you for your faithfulness in ways you would never imagine.
Welcome home!
Dave
Nathan July 24th, 2012 5:16 pm :
It seems to me this verse is pretty key to your argument: http://bible.cc/acts/15-28.htm
“Necessary” in what sense? In the sense that if you do not submit to this you are in certainly in danger of excluding yourself (or you automatically exclude yourself?) from the Church and Christ? Really? That seems unlikely to me. Or is it more about being respectful of those with Jewish sensibilities so the unity of faith that already had been given and existed between Jewish and Gentile Christians did not get strained (leading first to schism, *then* heresy)? If it was the first option, when were these commands rescinded? To my knowledge, we don’t say all of them must be followed now (or does Rome)? Didn’t Paul say that we could eat food sacrificed to idols but we dare not do so if it means harming a brother who was weak in faith? Where in verse 28 does it say this was an: “authoritative and binding pronouncement that was bound in heaven even as it was on earth”? I understand words like that as regards God’s pastors granting forgiveness or withholding forgiveness based on their evaluation of whether or not a person is penitent, but not in this context.
Jason – I’m curious as to whether or not you considered Confessional Lutheranism (Chemnitz’s view of Sola Scriptura is quite different, and Lutherans do not absolutely insist that the 27 NT books are all of the same authority: for more see “round 1″ referenced here: http://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/update-on-my-humble-contributions-to-honest-ecumenical-dialogue/ ) and if not why not?
+Nathan
Brent July 24th, 2012 5:17 pm :
Jason,
Welcome home! You and your family are in my prayers (as they were for some time now).
Pax Christi,
Brent
Brent July 24th, 2012 5:26 pm :
Jason,
(one more comment)
Your story reminded me of Peter Kreeft’s words (I was in the audience when he said this) in reply to the question, “Why did you become Catholic?”
A: “It’s true”
Church Councils | Maude's Tavern July 24th, 2012 5:29 pm :
[...] an article over at Called to Communion by Jason Stellman which points out the crucial significance of the Jerusalem [...]
Peter Sean Bradley July 24th, 2012 5:39 pm :
Jason,
Welcome.
Re: Wistfully alluring. As a “lifer,” I know there have been times when I have been wistful for a church which perhaps has better singing and preaching, or which didn’t take such a literal position on John 20:23, or which didn’t make me part of or complicit with the events or views of less progressive eras, or, as a divorced man, took a more, well, “flexible” position about remarrage after divorce.
But, hey, truth is truth. If the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ, and if Christ was God, then it seems that nothing else matters.
For cradle Catholics, the choice is easy. In contrast, in light of your great sacrifice, I am infinitely amazed at the courage and fortitude of people like you, who join the Catholic Church as an act of the will, in obedience to their reason and faith.
Good luck to you and your family.
Anthony July 24th, 2012 5:47 pm :
Excellent to hear! I just joined the Church on Pentecost from an evangelical background. Nice to hear of other people working very hard to not become Catholic before finally giving in.
Julie July 24th, 2012 5:49 pm :
Welcome home, Jason. I am also a convert of over 20 years now. I know the you do not find the Church alluring. I predict that after you begin to receive the Eucharist, the True Presence of the Jesus Christ Himself, you will feel an incredible allure. The more you learn about all things Catholic the more alluring it becomes. Enjoy your journey and God bless.
J. July 24th, 2012 5:58 pm :
“But what it never was, was attractive, and in many ways it still isn’t.”
Yes, I remember thinking the–exact–same thing immediately before and after my sudden, terrifying, and deep conviction to leave Protestantism for the Church.
Thankfully, I came to love everything about Catholicism, and I now cannot imagine being anywhere else. I think you, too, will come to rejoice in the beauty of everything about the Church, especially the little things–the Rosary, the statues, the incense, Latin, the sacraments.
I rejoice with you!
All with Peter to Jesus through Mary!
Fr. Bryan July 24th, 2012 6:06 pm :
Welcome to the Church, Jason. I love being Catholic and pray that you will love it as well. Thank you for sharing your journey here.
Blessings to you and your family!
Susan July 24th, 2012 6:12 pm :
Hi Jason,
What you said about the harrowing experience of submitting to the Catholic Church is no exaggeration! Yet John Paul II says that she imposes nothing and that she only proposes. She’s more pushy than winsome that’s for sure! To think, that of all the churches in Christendom of which to choose from you ( and me too) had to go and choose the most unlikely:)
I told my husband that all of Protestantism has come from the Roman Catholic Church and that “She is our mother…..our great big mother.” My sweet but completely teed-off husband responded, “She’s a Big Mother, alright!” I couldn’t help but stop and laugh when he came back with that! Since most of our conversations have become arguments and crying, it’s good when it is punctuated with laughs even if it is at my expense.
Welcome home!
Susan
Rebekah (LawWife) July 24th, 2012 6:52 pm :
Welcome Home, Jason! I hope to see you on The Journey Home someday. :) My husband & I were received into full communion at Easter Vigil 2011, and I think his journey was a lot like yours.
Faramir July 24th, 2012 7:00 pm :
Jason,
I enjoyed reading your story– thank you for sharing.
You’re exactly right that the Catholic Church, like her Head, is “not a tame lion”. But I believe you will find that, like the stable in The Last Battle, it is bigger on the inside than it appears on the outside. Or, to use the analogy Pope Benedict used when he preached at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, it is like stained glass windows that appear dark and lifeless from the outside but are bright and luminous inside.
The only good reason to become a Catholic is because you believe the claims of the Catholic Church are true. However, I hope that some of the things which you currently feel you have to accept with gritted teeth will become things you fall in love with (this happened to me with the liturgy).
I was very saddened reading through the comments on the post announcing your resignation on your own blog. To those commenters who disagree with Jason’s decision, I would say this (not that I have any standing or authority, but here it is anyway): It’s perfectly fine to disagree and to argue forcefully the reasons for your disagreement. And I perfectly understand the feelings of shock, betrayal, anger, confusion, and frustration that could result from learning that someone you had previously admired and respected has, in your view, abandoned the gospel. But you do not support your argument and you disrespect the name of Christ which you claim to defend when you engage in name-calling and make baseless attacks against anyone’s honesty and integrity. (This goes for everyone on whatever side, including myself.)
Jason Stellman Has Officially Gone to Rome July 24th, 2012 7:06 pm :
[...] Stellman Has Officially Gone to Rome I Fought the Church, and the Church Won – Called to Communion Rev. Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, ARP Pastor, Ellisville Presbyterian Church (Independent) [...]
Tammy July 24th, 2012 7:09 pm :
Jason, I loved reading your story. I converted 21 years ago but not for any of the reasons you did…you actually knew what the heck you were talking about and I didnt have a clue. Theologically I’m a simpleton, but God spoke to my heart in terms I could understand.
Even though I can’t explain complex theology, when I am in need, I know that at 915 at St Marys Church downtown, the host will be elevated and Jesus will enter the room. If I dont know anything else, I know that and it is enough to get me through some really hard stuff and a tough vocation.
Thank you for being able to describe my religion better than I can. Welcome home !!
Christopher Lake July 24th, 2012 7:19 pm :
Jason,
Welcome to the Catholic Church, brother!! I can relate to your account of your journey in a visceral way. For all of the years that I was a Protestant, I had absolutely no dissatisfaction with *being* a Protestant (other than in the fact that, in the *last* of those years, increasingly, I reached the conclusion that certain of its claims were not true or even tenable).
Particularly, when I moved from broadly evangelical, Arminian beliefs to an acceptance of the five points of Calvinism, as a “Calvinistic Baptist,” I was convinced that God had led me to the most “Biblically faithful Christianity” that could be found. Within perhaps two months, I had resigned from my post as a deacon in my (non-Calvinistic) Baptist church and had found a strongly Calvinistic church. I was more than happy. I was elated.
The sermons there were so exegetically careful *and* deeply stirring– from within a “Reformed Baptist” framework, of course, of which the main preaching pastor was convinced and *very* exegetically persuasive . To this day, I have never heard a better preacher, in many ways, than him (though I obviously disagree with him now, in certain important ways, as a Catholic). I’ll put it this way– well-known PCA pastors were happy to “guest preach” at *this* particular Baptist church and, to say the least, that is *not* always the case between Presbyterians and Baptists!
The community there was very warm and tight-knit– still, to this day, the most strongly evangelistic (in the greater city), and the most deeply mutually supportive community (within the church) that I have ever encountered in *any* church. Even if it had not been so, I would have been happy to stay, because of the preaching, but the community was, indeed, amazing.
A geographical move eventually took me from this church and to another, similar church in another state. Still, I was completely happy being a Protestant and, particularly, a “Calvinistic Baptist” Protestant, as I continued to believe that that thinking most clearly reflected the soteriological and ecclesial teaching of the Bible. I became deeply involved in the church, happily volunteering many hours a week and beginning in training, with our on-staff Biblical Counselor (of the “CCEF” kind), to eventually become a Biblical Counselor myself. I had no intentions, not even a thought, of leaving Protestantism. The 5 Solas (with Christ at the center of each of them) were the very air that I breathed.
I have written all of the above, Jason (and others here), simply to say that I know how it feels, brother. In light of all of the above, it was an upsetting, and even angering, time for me when I began to notice serious Scriptural problems with Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura. I had already begun to discover that the thinking of so many early Church Fathers did not resemble Reformational Protestantism in distinctive ways, but when I began to see that the teaching of *the Bible* posed significant problems for the same– I can barely describe how it felt. It was like waking up in a sort of nightmare.
Eventually, I did find a joy, of sorts, in discovering the truth(s) of the Catholic Church (as a “revert” to her)– but it was a joy amidst much pain and sorrow. It was not the joy of “smells and bells” or supposed “unwarranted epistemic certainty.” It was the joy of Truth. (For anyone who wishes to equate my discovery of the Catholic Church with my earlier exegetical move from Arminianism to Calvinism, please see these articles:
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/11/solo-scriptura-sola-scriptura-and-the-question-of-interpretive-authority/
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/05/the-tu-quoque/
Jason, I write this to you, brother to brother, man to man– you may well already be experiencing this yourself; I don’t know– coming (back, for me) to the Catholic Church has been deeply joyful and deeply painful. Having been back, now, for almost two years, being in the Church continues to be joyful and painful. I simply could not return to Protestantism now, any more than I could become a Muslim. (To be clear, I am *not* equating Protestant Christianity with Islam!) Catholicism is historical Christianity. If I were not now a Catholic, I would likely be an agnostic, or perhaps, even, an atheist.
Yet, emotionally speaking (purely emotionally), there are days, in my sinfulness, when I wish that God had simply left me alone (so to speak) in my Calvinist Protestantism. By returning to the Catholic Church, I have lost so many friendships that it increasingly seems will never be restored, this side of eternity. My career life has taken a deep blow from which it still has not recovered in any externally noticeable way at all. (I am unemployed at 39, living alone, and surviving through disability benefits.) I do battle (spiritual warfare) with temptations toward despair now regularly– not for theological reasons, but because of the ongoing social and economic consequences of my Catholic “reversion.”
I had to do it though. It was, and is, a matter of Truth– of following Truth back to the one place to which I never thought I would return– the Catholic Church. The fact(s) that Christ founded her, that He is Really Present there, in the Eucharist, and that the Holy Spirit guides her, in official teaching of faith and morals– these truths give me deep joy, even amidst the suffering, and the conviction that I will, that I must, live and die as a Catholic. It’s a matter of sober, hard, and wonderful Truth.
God bless you and be with you, Jason. I am praying for you.
Christopher Lake July 24th, 2012 7:21 pm :
P.S. I love The Clash (have for almost 25 years)! :-)
JJS July 24th, 2012 7:46 pm :
Thanks so much for your encouraging words, everyone!
Nathan,
“Necessary” in what sense? In the sense that if you do not submit to this you are in certainly in danger of excluding yourself (or you automatically exclude yourself?) from the Church and Christ? Really? That seems unlikely to me. Or is it more about being respectful of those with Jewish sensibilities so the unity of faith that already had been given and existed between Jewish and Gentile Christians did not get strained (leading first to schism, *then* heresy)?
I will let the actual Catholics here weigh in on the technical distinction between dogmas and disciplines.
I do think the context of Acts 15 indicates that one of the primary concerns was sensitivity to Jewish believers, which is why James points out that “from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues” (v. 21).
Jason – I’m curious as to whether or not you considered Confessional Lutheranism … and if not why not?
No, I did not consider Lutheranism, since it seems to me to fall prey to the same objections I have to Presbyterianism. We’re talking about big, paradigmatic issues here rather than mere differences over details. If Geneva and Saddleback exist in the same county, then Wittenberg is right next door.
Sarah July 24th, 2012 7:53 pm :
Well said. I read your blog post about your resignation from the PCA pastorate and tried at the time to comment. I wasn’t sure where you were headed, but prayed for you then, and continue to now. My own journey to the Catholic Church, though not identical to yours by any means, included some of the same realizations. May all Protestants wrestle with the same truths, and may we all finally achieve unity. Welcome home.
Annie July 24th, 2012 7:58 pm :
I noticed at the bottom of the church website Jason is still listed as the pastor.
Jeff July 24th, 2012 8:02 pm :
Thank you very much! So lovely to have you! Make yourself right at Home.
Dan S July 24th, 2012 8:03 pm :
Jason:
Is there some place where you have written about your move from Calvary Chapel to the Reformed Church?
I am very interested in what you found lacking to make that move from evangelicalism.
God bless you for your courage and obedience.
Thanks so much, brother.
Dabn
David B Currie July 24th, 2012 8:23 pm :
Jason,
Let me add a big welcome home to all the others.
Like you, I came to the Church because her claims are true (19 years ago). I was also extremely hesitant, but I have never regretted it. I do thank God continually for the riches of grace he poured out in my life. All these years later, the amazing aspect of the Church is the depth of the riches that are there to explore. Enjoy !
God bless.
Peter July 24th, 2012 8:31 pm :
Welcome home, Jason. I know the journey can be long and difficult, but the end result is sweet and the sacramental life revives the soul.
Wanda July 24th, 2012 9:56 pm :
Excellent piece. I came into the Church a hard core Evangelical two years ago and still kneel and stare at the Real Presence and wonder at it all.
MissMaryJane July 24th, 2012 10:08 pm :
Welcome home!! God bless you!
JJS July 24th, 2012 10:15 pm :
Dan,
I wrote the following piece many years ago:
http://calvarychapel.pbworks.com/w/page/13146593/CC-Anti-Calvinists
Ana Laura Cox July 24th, 2012 11:07 pm :
Welcome Home, Bienvenido a Casa… you are in our prayers!!!
Potamiaena July 24th, 2012 11:15 pm :
Welcome, Jason and family. The only thing really TRUE about the the Church is that She is full of sinners. I am amazed at your intelligence, and enjoyed reading your article.
Christopher Lake, I am praying for you.
Annette Heidmann July 24th, 2012 11:18 pm :
Jason, as a fellow traveler for many years on the highways and byways of Reformedville, it is so very good to be able to join in the “Welcome Home” chorus! God bless you as you continue this great journey!
Ney Vasconcelos July 24th, 2012 11:29 pm :
I just want to send you a warm, catholic Welcome from Sao Paulo, Brazil. Thanks for dividing this with us. So, let’s walk together, with Him.
Ney V.
Dan July 24th, 2012 11:36 pm :
Thanks for that link, Jason. How do you now understand Rom 3:11?
Thanks
Dan
tim prussic July 24th, 2012 11:46 pm :
By “welcome home” do you mean that a man in Christ but not submitted to the Bishop of Rome is not home?! It is very hard not to read that as supremely sectarian.
Bryan Cross July 24th, 2012 11:58 pm :
Tim, (re: #42)
Keep in mind that for anyone who doesn’t believe Christ founded a visible Church, any claim to the effect that Christ founded a visible Church, and it is this Church right here (pointing), is going to seem sectarian. But in such a case, that definition of ‘sectarian’ begs the question, by presupposing ‘invisible church ecclesiology,’ whereas Catholics believe Christ founded a visible Church and that essential visible unity is one of her four marks. That’s why for St. Optatus and St. Augustine, the Donatists were in schism from the Church. In that respect the Donatists weren’t home. (See “St. Optatus on Schism and the Bishop of Rome.”) So persons who treat any claim to being the Church Christ founded as ‘sectarian’ only show that theirs is not a visible church ecclesiology, and that they have no conception of schism from that does not reduce to heresy (see “Michael Horton on Schism as Heresy“).
I discuss the charge of ‘sectarianism’ in more detail in “Ecclesial Unity and Outdoing Christ.”
In the peace of Christ,
- Bryan
Christina July 25th, 2012 12:59 am :
Jason, it’s my honor to welcome you home. I’m a recent convert myself and it feels good to finally be a part of the welcoming committee!
I could relate with much of your story because I grappled with many of the same issues myself. I too was a “kicking and screaming” convert. Some people are shocked to learn that anti-Catholicism exists as it does today, but one needs only to read the comments on your resignation post for evidence. Though I had less to lose than you did, I found my conversion to be a real cross to bear. It was absolutely worth it. You will never regret this.
I am praying for you as you enter full communion with the Church. Keep writing, if only for yourself. You’ll always remember this!
A conversion story you can’t miss | The Recovered Catholic September 23rd, 2012 10:26 pm :
[...] I Fought the Church, and the Church Won by Jason Stellman [...]
Leslie Cariaso September 23rd, 2012 11:06 pm :
To God be the glory. I’m awed, moved. And very humbled that I need to live my faith more and more and much better each time. Welcome HOME Jason to the One, True, Holy and Apostolic Church.
Patricia September 23rd, 2012 11:08 pm :
Just tuned in. I will read this tomorrow when I can absorbed your interesting journey home. This leads into my question. Have you ever been on the Journey Home Program with Marcus Grodi on EWTN? One of my favorite programs is The Journey Home because converts are some of the most inspiring catholics and I always learn more and get more excited about my faith when I hear the journey home stories. God bless
Mitch Mertens September 23rd, 2012 11:26 pm :
Lots of love and many prayers sent to you from the folks of St. Brendan Parish. Mexico, MO. Peace!
Elisa September 24th, 2012 12:01 am :
Thank you for sharing your story. I am moved by it. It is tremendously encouraging, and real– it’s important that people know that coming to the faith happens for different people in different ways. For some, it is in consolations and joy, for others, it comes with loss and pain (or somewhere in the middle). But the courage to say yes to truth, no matter how it comes, is itself a grace from God. Welcome home, indeed! God bless you on this new journey! –from a”cradle” Catholic wife of another convert.
Kelli September 24th, 2012 12:27 am :
Welcome Home Jason! I am a revert to the Church! I pray that with time your love and passion for being a Catholic will increase :) I, too, read a lot of the comments where your resignation letter was posted, and it broke my heart to see so many hurtful comments! Your story and courage is very inspiring and I will be praying for you and your family! Again, welcome home to the beautiful Church that Christ founded.
Linda September 24th, 2012 12:51 am :
As a new convert, welcome home! I’ve been praying for you since I read about your resignation from PCA earlier this year. It’s good here, you’ll like it!
Sj Dinsay September 24th, 2012 1:19 am :
I’m a Roman Catholic. And everything that Jason and Scott Hahn discovered about Catholic dogmas and doctrines – after striving for years to discredit it – is the reason why I will never convert to other religion. Protestant theologians, past and present, are striving to study and discover theological truths that Catholic Church fathers have already long uncovered and more than sufficiently explained. The fact that this is so is solid proof of how Jesus has faithfully guided – and continues to guide – His Church and protects it from all subtle – and not so subtle – attacks from the evil one. When I compare the theology of the best Protestant minds with that of the Church Fathers – sadly, they (Protestant theology) always pale in comparison.
Holy Trinity, One God, praise Your Holy Name FOREVER!
Joseph Orlando OSB September 24th, 2012 1:20 am :
The Lord has done wonderful things for you. Thank you for generously sharing your experiences with others. I give thanks to the Lord with you for all that He has done and will keep doing in and through you. God bless.
brian September 24th, 2012 2:03 am :
Mr. Stellman I am happy you have found your “Truth”. I do not know if you remember me I posted at PP a few times, usually emotional rants that Michael in his kindness put up with. I hope you and your family have great peace and joy.
Scott September 24th, 2012 8:14 am :
Welcome Jason. My wife and I converted in 2008 after fighting the truth for a while. We went through RCIA for 2 years! We are now home; welcome home.
Dominika von Semkov September 24th, 2012 8:54 am :
Welcome Home Brother!
Chris September 24th, 2012 9:03 am :
I am always amazed to hear about conversions from people who have a financial interest in not converting. As a former Protestant pastor, your livelihood is gone and your education is now of no help to you in obtaining work at a Presbyterian ministry. When my wife and I converted, we had no such financial constraints, but I know it would have been much more difficult if we had. I pray you find the peace, joy, and grace of Christ offered to us in the sacraments.
A coming evangelical collapse? | Near Emmaus September 24th, 2012 9:05 am :
[...] his controversial departure from the Presbyterian Church of America to the Roman Catholic Church in “I Fought the Church, and the Church Won”–a guest post for the blog Called to Communion. He says that Catholicism was not alluring to [...]
Paul Weinhold September 24th, 2012 9:39 am :
Welcome home, Jason!
K. Doran September 24th, 2012 9:53 am :
Welcome home, Jason!
The Devil always makes it seem like we’re going to lose everything when we submit ourselves to Jesus’ authority through the Church. But then, after we do so, God finds ways of paying us back one hundred fold. Hang in there and don’t give up, because God does not punish us for following Him. You will be so joyful after your first confession and your first communion, because joy comes from gratitude and you will be more grateful than you can imagine. I know there is some suffering heading your way, but just remember that life is short and eternity is long. This is a happy time, and I am so happy for you.
Sincerely,
K. Doran
Lynn Breaux September 24th, 2012 10:01 am :
Wonderfully expressed. The best I can do when asked why I’m Catholic by my Protestant friends is say “The Catholic Church is the hardest to belong to, but it’s the only True Church.”
David Meyer September 24th, 2012 10:06 am :
Jason,
Former PCA greetings to you bro.
In 2010, you asked me to share what my PCA session said concerning my conversion to Catholicism. I perhaps now know why you were interested! I wish I had been more open with you at that time.
I relate to your making the move because of truth. It certainly can’t be for the awful Gather hymnal (Wow I never realized how awesome people can sing in the PCA) or the scandalous Catholic politicians. In many ways, the PCA is a more “homey” place than the Catholic Church. But it is the homeyness of a club or something. Like if I got together to trim bonsai trees with a group of people every week, I would feel really at home with them, and other “non-bonsai” people would just not get it. This kind of “church based on agreement over doctrine” naturally produces this club atmosphere. But the Catholic Church is not homey, it is home in a different way, and ultimately (for me) in a supremely satisfying way. As a Calvinist, when I submitted to a doctrine I disagreed with, I did it with my eyes peeled for a better situation. Now as a Catholic, I am learning what the obedience of faith is. To conform my mind to that of the Catholic Church’s two millenia of saints is humbling and frustrating sometimes, but it brings an expansive freedom I had never thought possible. I can truly rest now.
Welcome home Jason, come on in! Father is in his easy chair and is eager to forgive you when you ask, and Mother has bread in the oven for you.
Peace,
David Meyer
David Meyer September 24th, 2012 10:15 am :
Oh, and Jason, you seriously need to get on the horn with Marcus Grodi. I would love to see your story on the Journey Home. And that show reaches an audience that may not read blogs.
Celso Dagaas September 24th, 2012 11:06 am :
Welcome Home Brother Jason and Family. The Catholic Church is full of Sinners who later became Saints from the time of the Apostles and until now, but indeed it is true and beautiful.
Susan September 24th, 2012 11:42 am :
Hi David (re#63)
You know my situation through email( thank you for all the encouragement), but I don’t think you know that I am currently in RCIA ;) This journey is very very tough, so I take comfort from the testimonies of others that I too will be able to say that it was all worth it. You’re right that the CC isn’t homey; I’m fighting a ton of incredulity because of my Protestant sensibilities, but at the same time being certain that it is The Truth. You come to realize that because Catholicism is everything that it, in truth, is, there ain’t no way Protestantism can be a credible alternative. It’s hard to explain, but one can sense the way likeness highlights disparity, and you’re like, “Wait, Protestants borrowed that.” As much as our separated Brethren desire our return they just can’t see that it is impossible to go any place else, and that the situation really is, as Jason said above, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”
Susan
Deacon Dale September 24th, 2012 12:54 pm :
Jason – welcome to the Catholic Church. As a former Methodist my story of conversion is much simpler – I wanted my future family to belong to one denomination and I chose the Catholic Church since I knew my wife could not leave the Catholic Church because of her parents. (My father was the son of a Methodist minister and my mother a non-practicing Catholic – at the time my father had been dead a few years). I made the decision for unity in the family. Little did I know that calling to family unification was a silent calling by God to my future ordination as a Catholic Deacon. As a Catholic it took me about 11 years before I actually embraced the Church completely – my stumbling stone was Mary – a conversion story that finally got me to fully embrace Catholicism – I have never regretted my conversion. May God Almighty continue to bless you on your journey!
Deacon Dale
Terry Fenwick September 24th, 2012 1:51 pm :
Welcome Home! We came at the ages of 70 and 76 – after years of loving the Lord and serving him – but always longing for worship – then we found it – and it was that funny Church we never wanted to go to! Never been happier since finding TRUTH!
Carson Weber September 24th, 2012 1:55 pm :
Welcome home, from a Catholic brother in Sacramento.
Weston September 24th, 2012 2:12 pm :
Welcome home, Jason.
Jason Stellman September 24th, 2012 2:41 pm :
Thanks for the welcomes, everyone!
Hey David,
In 2010, you asked me to share what my PCA session said concerning my conversion to Catholicism. I perhaps now know why you were interested! I wish I had been more open with you at that time.
Man, I had completely forgotten about that. I can totally relate to your being a bit defensive about it you were at the time, though. When I currently experience even honest questions, I can easily react as though I am bracing for an attack, even if one is not forthcoming. A couple weeks ago TurrentinFan asked me a pretty simple question over email, and I about bit his head off!
I relate to your making the move because of truth…. In many ways, the PCA is a more “homey” place than the Catholic Church. But it is the homeyness of a club or something…. This kind of “church based on agreement over doctrine” naturally produces this club atmosphere.
That’s similar to what I was referring to when I wrote about Presbyterianism offering more subjective certitude than Catholicism does. After all, if other converts are like me, then they’d admit that their subjective amen-level agreement with everything the CC says is much lower than it was when they joined whatever their former church was. When I joined the PCA, I agreed 100% with everything it taught, whereas as now there is a LOT more faith-seeking-understanding at work.
But like you say, because of the Church’s divine authority, my eyes are no longer peeled for a better option.
I can truly rest now.
Yeah, there have been several instances over the past few months where I have felt a deep-seated relief that (1) the wheel already exists, and that (2) I don’t need to lead the charge to reinvent it. The trust in ecclesiastical leadership that an apostolic church makes possible allows one to sit back and receive the grace of the sacraments without constantly having to wonder whether they’ve got a bunch of stuff wrong that I am accountable to fix or expose.
priest's wife (@byzcathwife) September 24th, 2012 2:42 pm :
to a fellow convert (but I was only 12ish)- welcome!
Owen September 24th, 2012 3:15 pm :
Former Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, convert to Catholic Church Jan ’06 wishing you and your family a warm Welcome Home, Jason. My final Protestant charge was a large Presbyterian boomer styled church. All told, 18 years as Protestant pastor at the point of our conversion. I can relate then to much in your own story.
Our experience on ‘coming home’ is that it has been very, very difficult, much harder *after* converting, financially and in nearly every way so I cannot pretend roses. However, though the cost has been truly great so has been the gain in terms of treasures stored up in heaven and had I to do it again I would remain compelled by the Holy Spirit to make the same decision. God bless you.
Laura September 24th, 2012 3:26 pm :
Jason, I came into the Catholic Church on September 23rd, 2007!! (5 years ago!) It has been very hard (jumping into a brand new culture) but also very rewarding. No going back!
Christopher Lake September 24th, 2012 3:30 pm :
Jason,
I was looking for the difference between this piece and your earlier published one, and I see that, as of yesterday, you are now in full communion with the Church! Congratulations, brother!
Offering some thoughts here that may be helpful for you: take your time in getting used to everyday life as a Catholic. It definitely involves some serious adjustments, especially coming from Reformed Protestantism. Even after having been back in the Church now for over two years, I continue to adjust to certain things. For example, I am coming, more and more, to understand and appreciate the Catholic veneration of Mary, but deep *participation* in it still feels a bit “alien” to me. I do affirm all that the Church officially teaches about her role in our redemption (a non-salvific role, strictly speaking, as compared to Christ Himself, though without her, we would have never *had* Christ by Whom we are saved!). However, many of the Marian *practices* still involve some moments of theological vertigo for me, for lack of a better way to put it, simply because I was taught, for so many years, to not involve Mary in my devotional life as a Christian *at all*.
If you are struggling to adjust in similar ways, yourself (whether about Marian belief and practice, or about any other aspect of the Church), don’t beat yourself up about it. It takes different people different amounts of time to get Catholicism into their bloodstream. For some people, the adjustments are very easy and natural; for others, they can be more difficult. Speaking honestly, I am in the latter group– though I should also say that I can no more imagine *not* being Catholic now, than I could imagine embracing Islam!
Blessed John Henry Newman is right when he says that if Christianity is historical, then Catholicism *is* Christianity. The only *possibly* historically reasonable alternative, in my view, is Eastern Orthodoxy. Not that the faith of serious Protestants is altogether ahistorical, of course– they do hold to much of historic Christianity, including, thanks be to God, the most crucial claims of Christ about who He is. However, by apostolic standards, serious Protestants are also missing crucial parts of historic Christianity, such as apostolic succession and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
Jason, if you discern a serious conviction to put your “Catholic conversion story” out there even more (such as on “The Journey Home”), then, by all means, I encourage you to do so. It could help many people in various stages of thinking about the Church.
However, please *do not* allow yourself to feel pressured into telling more of your story, publicly, than you are actually comfortable with doing. In recent months, I have decided that I simply need more time, being back in the Church after almost fifteen years of being away, before I will be ready to put more of my story out there, in a very public way, for thousands, or even millions, of people to read/hear/watch. This decision does not involve doubts about what the Church teaches at all in any way. It has to do with a knowledge of my own weaknesses, as a sinful human being, and an awareness that, at this stage, even *beginning* to go on the “Catholic convert testimony circuit” would be harmful for me.
Don’t get me wrong: I’m glad that you have written (some of) your story for us here. If you sense a calling to do more in that vein (soon, I mean), it could be great and very helpful. Just don’t feel pressured to do so, and again, if it takes some time for you to get the Catholic “hang of things,” in daily life, don’t feel bad about it. Welcome home, brother. It’s good to have you as a fellow member of the Church that Christ founded!
David Deavel September 24th, 2012 3:36 pm :
Jason,
Wonderful post, again. In comment 65 you note:
“After all, if other converts are like me, then they’d admit that their subjective amen-level agreement with everything the CC says is much lower than it was when they joined whatever their former church was. When I joined the PCA, I agreed 100% with everything it taught, whereas as now there is a LOT more faith-seeking-understanding at work.”
This is a very true comment. I’ve been a Catholic 15 years now and there are aspects of the Church’s teaching that: a) I didn’t understand or fully get when I came in that became clearer as time went on (an example being the Church’s teaching on contraception, which I took on faith upon entry, but now believe, understand, and wholeheartedly find intellectually persuasive); b) I wasn’t even aware of at the time, but now find it impossible to live without (I think of a number of aspects of what is going on in the liturgy); c) I still find difficult to understand (yes, free will and predestination are still puzzles to me, though many of my Thomist friends have tried to enlighten me to no end:)); and d) that are no doubt not even on my radar yet, but which I’m excited to think I may discover.
Like you, I’m glad I don’t have to reinvent the wheel.
teomatteo September 24th, 2012 4:39 pm :
Jason, Peace to you brother. Sometimes i wish i hadn’t been born and raised in the Church so i could have a great story like yours. But that wish would be dumb. Anyway, i will keep you in my prayers and ask you to keep our Pope in your prayers. I think you will come to see what that man has on his shoulders….
Telemachus September 24th, 2012 5:45 pm :
God bless you, and welcome home!
Pax Christi,
Tele
Kate September 24th, 2012 6:37 pm :
How small that is, with which we wrestle,
What wrestles with us, how immense;
Were we to let ourselves, the way things do,
Be conquered thus by the great storm-
We would become far-reaching and nameless.
What we triumph over is the small,
And the success itself makes us small.
The eternal and unexampled
Will not be bent by us.
This is the Angel, who appeared
To the wrestlers of the Old Testament:
When his opponent’s sinews
In that contest stretch like metal,
He feels them under his fingers
Like strings making deep melodies.
Whomever this Angel overcame
(who so often declined the fight)
He walks erect and justified
And great from that hard hand
Which, as if sculpting, nestled round him.
Winning does not tempt him.
His growth is this: to be
Deeply defeated by the ever-greater One.
- Excerpt from Ranier Maria Rilke, “The Man Watching,” translated by Edward Snow in The Book of Images. New York: North Point Press, 1994.
John Thayer Jensen September 24th, 2012 6:51 pm :
Susan (#65)
Just an encouragement regarding RCIA. RCIA can be wonderful (or so I am told) – or utterly awful. I remember our own experience, my wife’s and mine and our children’s. Internet friends, when they knew we were going to become Catholics (this was late 1994 or early 1995), hearing from us of some of the RCIA details we had heard of, told us we should not go through with it. Find an orthodox priest to instruct us privately. I decided not to go that way. I had had 25 years, I said, of being a Protestant, of doing it my way. I thought it a bad idea to enter the Church on my own terms only. I said we will just go through RCIA in our own pretty blah local semi-rural parish, put up with whatever they presented, and not worry about it. I am very happy we did.
Our RCIA class was dominated by us – and we had read our way into the Church, so were able to discount the rubbish. There was only one other person in the group (my family were five). She was received into the Church – and promptly stopped attending Mass.
We were sponsors for another convert (someone who had been in our Reformed church) in another parish, a couple of years later. That RCIA was considerably worse than ours. At one point we were all to join hands, close our eyes, and (the leader’s words) “feel the love flow from left to right around the circle; now feel the love flow from right to left around the circle.” At one point we were all supposed to talk about our image of God. I felt a little uncomfortable, but when it came to my turn, I said that I didn’t really have an ‘image’ of God – but that I would know Him when I saw Him by the holes in His hands and feet. “Oh, no,” another catechist said, “that’s Jesus; we’re talking about God.” The same lady said, when it came to her turn, that she sometimes felt that God was “like a big teddy bear.”
Sigh.
And yet, that same woman is very devout. In a parish without kneelers, and where many don’t kneel for the Consecration – she does.
So … the Church is an enormous mixed bag. That woman’s heart is right, I think; her head is full of cottonwool.
Welcome to the family – Jason AND Susan :-)
jj
Sue in Japan September 24th, 2012 7:19 pm :
Another big Welcome from a fellow convert! Thank you for having the courage to share your story. I’ll be celebrating 2 years as a Catholic in Nov., but I still find such encouragement in a good conversion story! Blessings to you and your family!
Steve Martin September 24th, 2012 7:41 pm :
You should feel comfortable there (Roman Catholicism).
The theologies of most Evangelical churches and the Catholic Church are pretty close…’a lot of God and a little bit of me’. We always say of them (the Evangelicals) that “they are Rome without the vestments”.
In any event, I hope you have found what you have been looking for.
Christopher Lake September 24th, 2012 8:00 pm :
Susan,
Echoing John’s comment #79, I fervently hope and pray that you are in an RCIA class that accurately reflects the teaching of the Catholic Church. As much as certain aspects of Catholicism may rub against the grain of your Protestant sensibilities (and I can certainly understand that), it is all the more important that you get a correct understanding of what the Church teaches *now*, so as to save you from possible confusion and grief later.
I now believe that my own RCIA experience, back in the mid-90s, helped to plant the seeds for my eventually leaving the Church for, first, nihilism, and then, later, anti-Catholic Protestantism. In retrospect, I don’t think that I would have ever left the Church in the first place, if the content of my RCIA class had accurately reflected the content of the Catechism (in substance, I mean, not necessarily in presentation).
God bless you and be with you on this journey, my sister in Christ! I can’t wait to welcome you home to the Catholic Church!
Christopher Lake September 24th, 2012 8:26 pm :
Steve (re:#81),
As a Reformed Protestant, Jason did not share the theology of (in your words) “most Evangelical churches.” He was a PCA minister. The Presbyterian Church in America, as a denomination, is Reformed and confessional– decidedly unlike most broadly evangelical communities, at least in America.
For myself, I was a “Reformed Baptist” whose ecclesial background included adherence to “The New Hampshire Confession of Faith” and the joyful signing of a “church membership covenant,” both of which which I took seriously– but neither of which, as a Protestant, I believed to have anything at all to do with my justification before God.
I know that you believe to be the theology of Rome to be “a lot of God and a little of me.” However, the historical fact is, Martin Luther came to his beliefs on justification by faith alone and imputed righteousness through his *individual interpretation* of the Bible, as opposed to what Biblical exegetes in the Church had taught for 1, 500 years– which, to my “Catholic revert” ears, definitely sounds like “a little of God and much more of Martin Luther.”
I’ve been on both sides of the Tiber, and only the Catholic Church has an authoritative teaching safeguard against stumbling into “Biblically-based” heresy. I know well that my Protestant brothers and sisters claim the Holy Spirit (and careful exegesis, comparing Scripture with Scripture) to *be* this safeguard for them, in their reading of the Bible– but the 500-year history of denominational disagreement and fragmentation in Protestantism would seem to argue otherwise.
Christopher Lake September 24th, 2012 8:28 pm :
Sorry for the typos in #83, Steve and everyone! Rushing here, so as to get to my graduate reading for the evening! :-)
Susan September 24th, 2012 8:31 pm :
JJ :) !!
So far, I’ve heard comments that make my internal Scottish Covenanter twitch a bit and then my beloved Protestant formularies come to mind, but I have no place to deliver them, so I feel a let down. For sanity, I sometimes just repeat “The Jesus Prayer”, and I keep reminding myself: “What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever! This belongs to all of Christendom, as does everything the CC teaches. It’s just that I need lots of reprogramming ;)
Sheesh, I became Reformed because of the nutty stuff that was going on in the late ‘90’s! I listened to Hank Hanegraff on The Bible Answer Man program here in Southern CA., and was on the lookout for a “healthy well-balanced church” and I really desired everything that was orthodox, since that was a word that was thrown around a lot by biblical apologists. I knew that whatever it was, it wasn’t “bubbling out my belly” or animal imitations, but I still didn’t know how to find an orthodox church so my point of reference became the Calvary Chapel nondenomination that my favorite apologists kept recommending.
But then, over time as a Protestant, I found myself with no spirituality. I began to miss that same so-called subjectivism in worship that I had derided. I alsmost wanted to hear “Lord light the fire again” for the umpteenth time. I tried to find it in the puritans. I wondered where I could get meaty theology and philosophy, beautiful music, and a sense of crossing a “sacred threshold” (as R.C. Sproul called it). The EO and the Catholics both had mystics, and since I am a spiritual being, it made sense that there should be some mysticism. Right now I don’t know what orthodox mysticism is but I am sure that Rome has a balanced approach.
I feel fortunate that my Priest is a new Anglican Personal Ordinariate who was once a member of the PCA. I have to remind him of my Calvinistic tendencies as we are working through Evangelium. I am in good company and Lord willing, will be received around Christmas. This is will be the most exciting Christ-Mas for me; I always wanted to sneak into a CC to see a Christmas Eve Mass. Look forward to having the most beautiful nativity in my home! It’s all coming together and it all makes perfect sense.
Many blessing, my friend,
Susan
Susan September 24th, 2012 8:49 pm :
Christopher, my dear brother, thank you for the months of prayer and always saying the most helpful things. This is Jason’s moment certainly, but we are coming in because of the work of people at this site whether they are a member of the project or adding their own questions or perspectives. I especially benefit from your being a Calvinist at one time, and your honesty about the things you struggle to accept. You have the gift of encouragment and you are such a clear communicator. Blessings to you always!
Aside: I see from other blogs that people recognize that Protestant ministers are losing their vocations by becoming Catholic, and that is a huge loss. We all are giving up something that may never be regained or replaced in an equivalent way. But, as far as Jason is concerned, I think he will have a career in writing.
S.D.G.
Susan
John Thayer Jensen September 24th, 2012 9:04 pm :
Christopher (#82)
FWIW I would think it would be a rare RCIA programme that would give much in the way of actual teaching. Almost the best one could hope for, I would think, would be no heresy and – perhaps of great importance – directing you to resources for growth as a Catholic once you have been received.
If I am right – I may well be wrong – but if I am right, I think the reason is inherent in the RCIA procedure itself. The amount of time available is limited. It is a group thing, and must in its nature be aimed at a rather lowish level. And much of its function seems to me helping people to become members of a group, rather than actual knowledge transfer. In a way, I think that’s right.
Once upon a time, when there were more priests, and if you had a fairly well-educated priest – by no means certain, I suspect – individual instruction could be tailored to the needs of the convert. I think such fortunate situations must be rare now.
But on the other hand the availability of materials for the person who is a reader is very good – including such resources as Called to Communion itself and other Catholic blogs. So there are pluses and minuses. But I think that in general one may be disappointed by expecting an RCIA programme to produce well-formed Catholic minds.
jj
Kate September 24th, 2012 9:25 pm :
Welcome home to the one, the only, the original! As blogger Happy Catholic says, I’m not always happy, but I’m always happy to be Catholic.
Christopher Lake September 24th, 2012 9:35 pm :
Susan (re#86),
I’m happy to be of encouragement to you, sister! You’re very welcome!
I agree with you that Jason might well have a long career in writing! He published one book as a Reformed Protestant, and I’d love to see many more from him (if God wills) as a Catholic!
Please pray for me in career discernment. As a happy Calvinist Protestant, after years of struggle in the job market, largely related to issues involved with my physical disability, my career life seemed like it was *finally* starting to come together (I was training, under an elder, to become a Protestant nouthetic “Biblical Counselor”)… *just* when I began to be convicted to re-investigate Catholicism. Honestly, I was angry with God, on and off, for months about the timing of this conviction. I was wrong in that anger, but it was what it was.
Those who are prone to psychoanalysis might say that I was actually trying to sabotage myself economically– but I know better. It was God who led me back to the Catholic Church and away from Protestantism and a career in Protestant counseling ministry. I never would have chosen for myself my current *economic* place in life, if the matter had not been one of following Truth, wherever the visible evidence of Scripture and church history led me.
Christopher Lake September 24th, 2012 9:57 pm :
JJ (re:#87),
In reference to RCIA, you wrote:
Almost the best one could hope for, I would think, would be no heresy and – perhaps of great importance – directing you to resources for growth as a Catholic once you have been received.
I think it is very possible for the RCIA process to be one in which all people taking the classes are instructed clearly (not at the level of a graduate theology seminar, to be sure, but clearly!) on what they must believe and do to be faithful Catholic Christians. I did not receive this clear instruction. Some of what I was told was, indeed, heretical.
Unfortunately, I was also coming into the Catholic Church from a background of, partially, cultural, largely doctrine-empty, Southern Protestantism, and, much more, Godless hedonism. I was not the best equipped, to say the least, to “deal with” my particular RCIA process.
In retrospect, I should have just stuck with the Catechism and ignored (or studied to refute) the very poor RCIA materials, and what I was hearing in and out of the classes. However, at the time, I was young, somewhat naive, still influenced by culturally Protestant ways of thinking, and confused by the discordant voices in the Church.
If only… but God has brought me back home to the Church, with a much more firm grounding in the faith now, so I cannot allow myself to pine too much for what I *wish* would have been the case those many years ago. Thanks be to God that He has brought our brother Jason home too!
New Convert September 24th, 2012 10:12 pm :
Jason, welcome home. My wife and I came into the church at Easter after a lifetime as protestants (including a stint in the PCA). Praise God for you conversion and keep writing!
Peace,
JDD
Theresa September 24th, 2012 10:30 pm :
Dear Jason, Laudate Dominum!
Your Guardian Angel must have been doing hand-stands when you received the Blessed Sacrament for the first time, Deo Gratias!
The Church is the Spotless Bride of Christ, but we her children can often be unruly, disobedient and downright ornery. Please bear with us and call us to account with loving fraternal correction.
Welcome to you and your family. God bless you :-)
Susan September 24th, 2012 11:33 pm :
John and Christopher,
It’s possible to be in the right church( ok well there is only one right church. the rest are heterodoxys) and have some things confused……this much I am realizing. Here’s the beef Protestants have with Catholics; i.e. after this long they can’t even get their New Members Course together. But if you realize that even in a Protestant church people have been members for years and still have not studied Reformed doctrine or they don’t read their bibles personally, you can see that there might always be something doctrinally mixed-up. Is it damning? I don’t think Protestants think their members believe anything that is heresy, until they start examining the tradition that is prior to the Reformation that is.
No matter how much one knows there is always more to learn. Some people neglect learning regardless the ecclesial body. The thing is, this is excusable in a Reformed church, as long as you profess “the gospel”. If you join this body you eventually learn the nomenclature and you will adapt, knowing what is group speak and what isn’t. Catholicism seems to have the same thing. There are little grandmas lighting candles to get their loved ones out of purgatory, but they are doing this because Catholicism teaches it, not because they are scripturally ignorant, though they might be. If we assume that the Church is wrong we will find the practitioners wrong, but if She is right, her members don’t have to be scholars.
After saying that, I hope that I am getting everything that is Orthodox and nothing that is heresy from my RCIA class. My priest also handed me a copy of the Catholic Catechism, so I really have no excuse when I am in error except that I am lazy or I haven’t read that part yet;) But, I am now onboard the Barque of St. Peter and allowing some epistemic uncertainty is par for the course, right? I see through a glass dimly, but there is a day coming……..!!
Christopher, you are great with souls. I will pray for wisdom and direction.
Susan
John Thayer Jensen September 24th, 2012 11:41 pm :
Susan (#93
My priest also handed me a copy of the Catholic Catechism…
You give thanks for that priest!
jj
Mike September 25th, 2012 12:36 am :
Thank you so much for sharing your story Jason. As a 43-year-old cradle Catholic I am always amazed at how much those who have come from outside the Catholic faith have been able to teach me about my faith and to help strengthen my faith. No longer taking things for granted when seeing it through the eyes of someone new to the faith. Thank you and God bless, Mike
rob September 25th, 2012 12:42 am :
Congratulations!!! Welcome home!!! As a revert, submitting to the Church was hard, though, ridiculously rewarding; so beautiful. It is submitting to the Will of God, being obedient to Him, which is why it’s so beautiful. As a MA student in Theology, I invite you to Franciscan U. of Steubenville. Here, you will see life lived fully in the Spirit. Please consider coming. Praise God!!!
Michael Swervetus September 25th, 2012 12:59 am :
Dear Jason, your story was beautiful, but needed a soundtrack. Here it is:
http://archive.org/details/IFoughtTheChurchAndTheChurchWon
Sometimes you just got to laugh. Welcome home!
Susan September 25th, 2012 1:38 am :
I reread Mr. Stellman’s story possibly for the 5th time, because I am still in the thick of it and my pain is very raw, but he does make a very compelling case.
All detractors, know deep down that the things he wrestled with are the same things they too wrestle with or should do so.
“Moving on to Sola Fide, I found myself wrestling with this issue from both a historical and biblical perspective as well, and this is what ultimately proved to be the coup de grâce for me as a Protestant. As long as I believed that Catholicism mucked up the gospel so severely, its arguments about authority remained merely annoying, like a stone in my shoe that I would eventually get used to (after all, better to be unauthoritatively right about justification than authoritatively wrong about it). But when I began to dig into the issue more deeply and seek to understand Rome on its own terms, I began to experience what some have referred to as a “paradigm crisis.” A severe one.
As a Protestant minister, I had always operated under the assumption that the fullest treatment of the gospel, and of justification in particular, came from the apostle Paul, and that the rest of what the New Testament had to say on these issues should be filtered through him. But as I began to investigate again things that I had thought were long-settled for me, I began to discover just how problematic that hermeneutical approach really was. If justification by faith alone was indeed “the article on which the church stands or falls,” as Reformed theology claimed, then wouldn’t we expect it to have been taught by Jesus himself, somewhere? Moreover, wouldn’t John have taught it, too? And Peter, and James? Shoot, wouldn’t Paul himself have taught the imputation of alien righteousness somewhere outside of just two of his thirteen epistles?’
I did the same examination( almost) and was forced towards Rome. I hope that no one takes this lightly.
God bless him for his courage. The pain is immense.
~Susan
Marie September 25th, 2012 4:33 am :
Great article!
And welcome to the church! :)
Br David-Marie from Syria September 25th, 2012 4:36 am :
Dear Jason,
The ancient Syrian Church welcomes you, even amid tears. We love you, and we lift up our hands in a sacrifice of praise – todah, eucharistia – thanking our kind Lord for drawing you, like a weaned child, closer to home, closer to his Eucharistic heart. May all our separated brethren be given the grace to see what you see and to eat what you eat. Change our hearts, Lord, humble us Catholics, and teach us to fear God alone.
- brother David-Marie
Community of Mar Yakub al Muqata, (St James the Mutilated)
Qara, Syria
Brent September 25th, 2012 6:42 am :
Jason,
I know I’ve already commented and maybe said as much, but welcome home! Now in full communion with each other, I am filled with great joy. I will continue to keep you and your family in my prayers. Being in full communion with the Church Christ founded is not the end of a journey but just the beginning.
Pax Christi
Jason Stellman Enters Full Communion | St. Joseph's Vanguard September 25th, 2012 8:21 am :
[...] I’m so excited about this news! [...]
Steve Martin September 25th, 2012 10:55 am :
Christopher @#83,
The Bible is God’s Word to us. Martin Luther was in search of a gracious God. He found the demanding God of Catholicism. The gracious God was there, too, but the way the Catholic Church was handling the Christian faith was from a ‘law’ perspective, or ‘what we do’.
The Roman Church had gone WAY off the rails during Luther’s time. Selling indulgences to get people and their families right with God. That is certainly not biblical. Luther did not desire to start anything new, just to get centered on Christ again. But they (the powers that be, in the Church) were making lots of money doing it their way and they threw Luther out.
A lot of God and a little bit of me, is still the default religion of most of Christianity and it clearly compromises the pure gospel, and sets people on a path of ‘what they do’, to become right with God. Why then the cross?
Luther just rediscovered Paul and was parroting Paul from the Scriptures. He wasn’t making anything up on his own accord.
This is a very good and interesting mp3 audio (class) on just this topic:
http://theoldadam.com/2012/02/21/here-it-is-the-question-that-percipitated-the-reformation/
And how it was that Luther went from a law scheme in reading Scripture (‘what we do’)…to a grace scheme (‘what Christ has done, s doing).
Even if you don’t agree with it, it will give you a much better understanding of why we believe what we do regarding the faith.
Thanks.
Jason Stellman is a great guy September 25th, 2012 11:43 am :
[...] who recently swam the Tiber (at great cost to himself and his family). I regard him as a hero.Anyway, he has finally been able to begin to tell his story. A good, good man and I hope we welcome him and help him and his family as they struggle to adjust [...]
Wes September 25th, 2012 12:22 pm :
Dear Jason,
I shared some of my own conversion experience in a comment to an article on line and was rewarded with an accusation of having presented a rant against evangelicalism with a demand for an apology and disclosure of my full name so that I could be publicly shamed by the other person. So, in case no one has done so, I want to thank you for your “rant”; it is so clearly stated and parallels what so many of us life-long evangelicals have experienced. Suddenly our blindness was cured. God Bless
David M September 25th, 2012 12:32 pm :
Jason,
Thank you for sharing your conversion story. I can relate to your intellectual/spiritual appraisal of Protestantism. Allow me to suggest that the Catholicism which won your heart and mind may not be the same that you hear and see in a typical Seattle archdiocese parish. I recommend Romano Amerio’s book “Iota Unum: A Study of the Changes in the Catholic Church in the XXth Century” and Fr. Cekada’s book “Work of Human Hands: A Theological Critique of the Mass of Paul VI.” (Fr. Cekada has video overviews of each chapter on Youtube). Shorter articles that ask and answer some of these tough questions can be found at http://www.traditonalmass.org.
Your fellow Catholic in the Northwest,
David M.
Blog Goliard September 25th, 2012 12:54 pm :
Welcome aboard the Barque of Peter, Jason!
I was raised in a mix of Methodism and Evangelicalism…swam the Tiber twenty years ago this coming Easter, and finally feel I am starting to get the hang of it.
May you grow steadily in the Faith…and may us fellow Catholics not drive you too crazy (some of us have a knack for it!).
David R September 25th, 2012 1:39 pm :
Myself a convert to Catholicism, welcome. Pax.
Corey September 25th, 2012 1:46 pm :
Jason,
You use the analogy of reinventing the wheel. In The Everlasting Man, G.K. Chesterton said “There are two ways of getting home; and one of them is to stay there. The other is to walk round the whole world till we come back.” In Protestantism’s separation from Rome, the subsequent dismissal of 1500 years of Sacred Tradition resulted in this journey out and away from the Church. Reinventing the wheel is part of the return journey. Only that lacking authority, it has only resulted in further division, not unity.
However, I do think in many cases, God is using the journey of many of our separated brethren to prepare them for greater service in His Church. Your passion and skills to articulate your faith are a great gift, a grace from God that is to be used and co-operated with. I pray you continue to spread the Word and help make the Church a place that is more alluring. The Truth shall set you free, but no one ever said that the Truth doesn’t sometime hurt. Welcome Home!!
RAB September 25th, 2012 2:52 pm :
Let me add my voice to the welcome and tears of gratitude to those from all over the world–now leave the door open for my daughter to follow…she wandered off. I always told her to ask God to place her where she belongs. (what did I do wrong???)
Its in Your hands Lord….
Edward A. Hara September 25th, 2012 3:33 pm :
Brother Jason –
First of all, welcome Home from a fellow convert also from the PCA.
Your journey, like all journeys of all converts, is quite amazing. It is heartening to see the Lord’s hand at work in this century, drawing so many good and balanced Protestants into the fullness of the truth. I can certainly appreciate your journey, as I was probably much more a diehard anti-Catholic than you appear to have been, although I would imagine that you had better theological reason than I had. I was just an ignorant bigot who had been fed on Chick tracts and Lorraine Boettner.
I found the covenant of God a compelling reason to consider Catholic soteriology and eclessiology. It also explained for me a number of very sticky wickets which Protestants find hard to hurdle, such as our Lady’s Queenship and where that is found in Scripture. It’s a covenant matter, and with the covenant in hand, I find I am able to give decent apologia for the hope that lies with in me as a member of our Lord’s Catholic Church.
Good to have you home with us! May the Lord bless you and make of you a fine warrior in the cause of truth and one who can win others to the fullness of the Truth.
Your brother in Christ,
Ed Hara
Philip Wilson September 25th, 2012 6:29 pm :
Dear Jason,
I join with everyone in the great chorus of “Welcome Home!”
How fascinating that each journey is different and some are very different indeed. I, for instance, was dramatically drawn to the Church after reading the works of Tolkien and Chesterton and after an awakening of love for traditional liturgical music (from Bach, Thomas Tallis, William Byrd, Palestrina and others). But I firmly refused to join her because I believed she was in error regarding her doctrines on authority and justification.
So discovering the veracity of the Church’s teachings on authority (once that issue is resolved, everything else falls into place) was like getting to marry the girl I always secretly loved.
And I think that sooner or later most people who come into the Church see it that way, too. Frustrations with human imperfections are there (the state of how the liturgy is celebrated is presently abysmal…thanks be to God there is one parish reasonably close where we get the Novus Ordo celebrated reverently, faithfully, and in Latin), but there simply is no substitute for the Bride of Christ, the very Kingdom of God on Earth.
The modern world has unexamined assumptions about how things should be. That is responsible for so much of Protestantism’s disdain for Catholicism. Once those assumptions are questioned they begin to fade, and the glorious beauty of the Church becomes clearer and clearer. It is of the Church which Chesterton spoke when he called it “bright at the sun, clear as the moon, terrible as an army with banners.”
Blessings and Peace to you,
Philip
Christopher Lake September 25th, 2012 7:14 pm :
Steve (re:#103),
I will listen to your MP3 and consider its content. I should say, though, that four years ago, I could have basically written your reply to me, word-for-word, because you actually presented the basic Protestant interpretation of Scripture and church history that I used to hold myself.
I, too, thought that Martin Luther was basically “parroting Paul.” I thought that Luther had rediscovered the Biblical Gospel of justification by faith alone, with the imputed righteousness of Christ counted to believers– the Gospel that had been “obscured” (and/negated) by “Romish doctrines.” I thought that the Catholic Church pointed us toward ourselves (and Mary) and away from Christ. I would have died for my Protestant convictions– which included believing that the Catholic Church anathematized the Gospel at the Council of Trent.
I am now firmly convinced that I was *Biblically wrong* in these Protestant convictions. (I do still believe that Luther was right to protest against the selling of indulgences. The Pope himself agreed with Luther on this subject. It, however, was not the ultimate reason for the Reformation.)
For some Biblical, exegetical reasons as to why I no longer believe that the Bible teaches Luther’s *interpretation* of St. Paul on justification, please see my reply to Hugh McCann here: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/does-the-bible-teach-sola-fide/#comment-37678
For more Biblical exegesis that provides evidence against Luther’s understanding of the Biblical teaching on justification, see my reply to Andrew McCallum here: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/does-the-bible-teach-sola-fide/#comment-37753
I understand the “law/Gospel paradigm” way of understanding Scripture, Steve. I was once convinced that this paradigm reflected the clear teaching of the Bible. However, continuing to study the Bible convinced me that I was wrong there. It didn’t help, either, that I found no early Church Fathers teaching anything which resembled Lutheran *or* Reformed thinking on justification– but if reading the Bible, itself, had not convinced me of the wrongness of justification by Sola Fide, I likely could never have even *begun* to take returning to the Catholic Church seriously as a live option.
Dan Soares September 25th, 2012 7:38 pm :
Christopher
I don’t mean to take focus away from this thread but would you point me to a source that articulates the ultimate reasons for the Reformation?
Jason
I applaud your courage. I am on that same journey. I’m further along than when I began. Pray for me.
Blessings,
Dan
Pat J September 25th, 2012 7:40 pm :
What an amazing journey you’ve had. Welcome home.
David M Paggi September 25th, 2012 7:42 pm :
Welcome home, & thank you for your very frank testimony. I am a cradle Catholic, & reverted after a period of rebellion. One thing that helped me was the story of Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman. When his friends pointed out he would lose everything: a great number of friends, a stellar public reputation, a prestigious Fellowship & pulpit at Oxford, and a substantial income (approaching 6 figures in today’s terms), he is said to have replied that it would be worth it for just one Communion. Difficult as it was, he was just beginning to pay the price: the failure of the Dublin university project, the Achilli trial, the Rambler, the abortive Oratory at Oxford, & friction & distrust from Catholics were still to follow. After all that, Charles Kingsley lambasts him, for which we should be thankful, as we certainly would not otherwise have his Apologia Pro Vita Sua, which you must read, in the unlikely event you haven’t. All this is to say you now have the Pearl of Great Price, but like the oyster from which it comes, it is an acquired taste.
Either Jesus is Who He says He is, or He is the greatest liar or lunatic ever. It follows that the Eucharist is What He says It is (cf John 6) or the same 2 alternatives apply. You have (rightly) discerned that Calvin’s authority, however meritorious, does not exceed Peter’s.
Kenneth J. Howell September 25th, 2012 8:21 pm :
Jason:
Thanks so much for your story. May God bless you and your family as you acclimate to the Church! I taught at Reformed Seminary in Jackson, MS from 1988 t0 1994 when I realized that, like you, in my conscience I could no longer subscribe to the PCA standards. 1 June 1996 I was confirmed and received into the Church that is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. I have never looked back. The Church is truly a treasury of spiritual, intellectual, and cultural riches. But most of all, it is true.
David L. September 25th, 2012 8:39 pm :
Before I make a comment, I wanted to point out that David Meyer’s comment seems very insulting to Protestants, and baseless. I have found plenty of healthy, loving disagreement over significant theological issues in many protestant churches, with a unity found in the historic creeds. Regardless, this kind of belittling analogy does not seem like it belong on this kind of website.
David’s comment was as follows . . .
“In many ways, the PCA is a more “homey” place than the Catholic Church. But it is the homeyness of a club or something. Like if I got together to trim bonsai trees with a group of people every week, I would feel really at home with them, and other “non-bonsai” people would just not get it. This kind of “church based on agreement over doctrine” naturally produces this club atmosphere. But the Catholic Church is not homey, it is home in a different way, and ultimately (for me) in a supremely satisfying way.”
Dagoberto Arechiga September 25th, 2012 8:58 pm :
Congratulations from the sower ministry! Saw your story on Scott Hahn’s facebook page! Congrats again!
Mr. D Sower Catholic Evangelization Ministry!
David L. September 25th, 2012 9:11 pm :
Jason,
Thank you for your article. I am fascinated by your journey.
You describe yourself in this post as having been as ” . . . staunchly confessional an Old School Presbyterian as anyone would want to meet.” As I have met several theologically trained ex-Protestants who have crossed the Tiber over the past few years, I have noticed that all of them tended, at some point, toward such a self-professed, “staunchly confessional” mindset. In the end, they criticized the Protestant church for craving too much theological certitude, for wanting to dot every theological “i” and cross every theological “t,” so to speak.
On the other hand, I also converse with other theologically-trained still-Protestants on a regular basis. For those who seem to require less certitude, who are more gracious toward and understanding of Roman Catholic doctrine, and who are generally less disputatious (not that this word describes you), crossing the Tiber seems much less likely. They seem truly comfortable in their own skin, and apparently not because they have a false sense of theological certainty.
I would be interested to hear your perspective in how to talk to these still-Protestants about our faith.
David
John Thayer Jensen September 25th, 2012 10:12 pm :
Dan (#114
…a source that articulates the ultimate reasons for the Reformation?
Karl Adam’s Roots of the Reformation is excellent.
jj
Jason Stellman September 25th, 2012 11:34 pm :
Edward,
I found the covenant of God a compelling reason to consider Catholic soteriology and eclessiology.
That’s interesting, especially because many Protestants read things like this (as well as Scott Hahn’s stuff) and dismiss it as being nothing more than Presbyterians importing their former theology into the Catholic faith.
My response to this charge is to do a bit of spiritual judo and use the force of the objection to the advantage of the Catholic Church. If the CC is, as Chesterton says, the “trysting place for all the truths in the world,” then it would make perfect sense for a convert to find his former theology in his new ecclesial home, albeit now in its perfect fullness, and in the proper relation to all the other truths of the Catholic faith.
So I agree, covenant theology was hugely instrumental in bringing me to Rome as well. Only now, the things I gleaned from Moo, Vos, Ridderbos, and Fee fit much more confortably alongside the things I read in Jesus, Paul, Peter, and James.
Jason Stellman September 25th, 2012 11:41 pm :
David L,
David Meyer’s comment seems very insulting to Protestants, and baseless. I have found plenty of healthy, loving disagreement over significant theological issues in many protestant churches, with a unity found in the historic creeds. Regardless, this kind of belittling analogy does not seem like it belong on this kind of website.
I know David can defend himself, but I would just point out that it is not “baseless” to say that what unites Protestants is often an “us vs. them” mentality (the whole movement began as one of protest against the established church). I don’t know what denomination you are in, but from my experience, many of them are defined almost solely in terms of what they’re not, and what they stand against. In fact, the PCA is often looked upon with derision by those in the OPC or URC for being too broad and evangelical (it has a whopping 300,000 members, after all).
Jason Stellman September 25th, 2012 11:55 pm :
David,
You describe yourself in this post as having been as ” . . . staunchly confessional an Old School Presbyterian as anyone would want to meet.” As I have met several theologically trained ex-Protestants who have crossed the Tiber over the past few years, I have noticed that all of them tended, at some point, toward such a self-professed, “staunchly confessional” mindset.
Verily I say to you, if any thinks he can have confidence in his former confessionalism, I more so!
In the end, they criticized the Protestant church for craving too much theological certitude, for wanting to dot every theological “i” and cross every theological “t,” so to speak.
Interesting. I find that this charge is the one usually leveled by Protestants against the Catholic Church, and people like me: we are on a “quest for illegitimate religious certainty.”
On the other hand, I also converse with other theologically-trained still-Protestants on a regular basis. For those who seem to require less certitude, who are more gracious toward and understanding of Roman Catholic doctrine, and who are generally less disputatious (not that this word describes you), crossing the Tiber seems much less likely. They seem truly comfortable in their own skin, and apparently not because they have a false sense of theological certainty.
I would be interested to hear your perspective in how to talk to these still-Protestants about our faith.
Yes, I know many people like this (many of them, in fact, have insisted that my understanding of the gospel is perfectly consistent with the Westminster Standards!). When I speak to men like this I usually focus on the authority issue: “At the end of the day, even if the PCA and the CC were to agree completely on justification, it wouldn’t change the fact that according to the latter, the former is not a church, but is in schism from the Church.”
Not to name names, but not a few of the Catholic-friendly Presbyterians like the ones you describe seem highly unlikely to become Catholic because (in my mind) they treasure too much their exegetical autonomy.
Mary Love Spiritual Progress Fulton Sheen Jason Stellman | Big Pulpit September 26th, 2012 7:01 am :
[...] I Fought the Church, and the Church Won – Jason Stellman, Called to Communion [...]
Kenneth J. Howell September 26th, 2012 7:17 am :
John suggested Karl Adam’s Roots of the Reformation is excellent.
The Coming Home Network reprinted this. Visit
https://store.chnetwork.org/
and use the search tool.
Dan Soares September 26th, 2012 8:03 am :
Thank you John & Kenneth.
Dan
David Meyer September 26th, 2012 9:28 am :
David L.,
I wanted to point out that David Meyer’s comment seems very insulting to Protestants, and baseless. I have found plenty of healthy, loving disagreement over significant theological issues in many protestant churches, with a unity found in the historic creeds.
I sincerely don’t want to insult anyone, and I apologize if I have. I should have been clearer than I was that I was giving my personal experience from 23 years of being a Protestant of various stripe, and extrapolating from that experience, combined with that of many others, something I see as much more of a trend in Protestant communities than I have seen in Catholic parishes.
And strangely, you seem to concede my point, or at least to understand it, by pointing out one type of “unity” experienced by Protestants:
…healthy, loving disagreement over significant theological issues in many protestant churches, with a unity found in the historic creeds.
For people like myself, this definition of unity has always been utterly maddening. For one thing, who ever said the “historic creeds” are to be the final measure of unity? What about the councils after those creeds? Why can we reject them? This is arbitrary.
Also, disagreement over “significant theological issues” is not loving. Christ called Christians to be one as the Trinity is one. We must be of one faith. I believed this as a Reformed Christian as much as I do now, and as you can imagine, that drew me to be in a very small group of likeminded Protestants (the PCA). From my perspective, if I had to describe the feeling, I would describe it as a club feeling. But even surrounding yourself with like-minded Christians is not comforting ultimately, and the club gets more political, because my opinion of the true doctrine changed over time (as it always will). So enter a crisis on the scene when I had to then decide at what point I should leave the group to go somewhere more “true” to my newfound doctrine (Paedocommunion and baptismal regeneration in my case). So can you see how this situation was (for me) both a tight knit club and also very spiritually unsettling? When our fellowship is based on our agreement with each other and our agreement to ignore the points we disagree on, arbitrarily designating them as not important enough to break fellowship (who decides this?), then a huge tension grows (for many of us at least).
Here is the tension:
On the one hand, there is a “homey” unity of a small group who agree on what they (arbitrarily) determine are the most important doctrines, and whose agreement is often very much a lowest common denominator where even (as you mentioned) important doctrines are sacrificed for the sake of “unity”.
On the other hand, as one grows in the spiritual life, learns more, reads more scripture and becomes convinced of different things and more specifically convinced of things, he will inevitably be disagreeing more and more with his co-religionists. Does he continue to go to a church he feels is not biblical? Does he submit to elders who are not teaching what he now sees as the truth presented in scripture? To a man, I was told by my Presbyterian brothers to just find a community I agreed with more. Huh? What about truth? What about being one like Jesus commanded us to be? And if I go somewhere else, won’t I just get tired of that too and move again? So the problem is more basic. I came to see the whole Protestant system as flawed to the core. I came to see biblically and historically that the Church needs to tell me what to believe, not the other way around. And any church that refuses to do that (PCA) or can’t do that (invalid authority) or both, is no true church. Now I am part of a Church which actually has unity of doctrine, can plausibly claim authority, authoritatively commands me in the name of Christ himself, and seeing as they comprise 52% of all Christians on the globe (over a b-b-billion souls), which is what I would expect the true church to look like after 2000 years, it makes sense to follow that Church rather than my best tries at exegesis and biblical interpretatin’. And I will follow this Church founded by Christ to my death.
I hope that clarifies where I was coming from. Really more of a personal view of things drawing from years as a Protestant. It’s not for me to try to get philosophical or anything.
Peace,
David Meyer
Bryan Cross September 26th, 2012 9:40 am :
David L (re: #118),
Regarding the contrast between the conceptions of Church as “catholic” and as “club,” see the quotation at “Club Church.”
In the peace of Christ,
- Bryan
Edward A. Hara September 26th, 2012 10:10 am :
Having received from Jason a nod of the head towards the covenant of God, which drew me in to the Catholic faith (albeit not to Rome, I am a Reuthenian Byzantine Catholic), I would like to mention a book that Scott Hanh and I talked about when I met him in 2003 at St. Joe’s in Mechanicsburg PA. It is THAT YOU MAY PROSPER — Dominion by Covenant by Ray Sutton.
Scott said that he personally knew of two men who were drawn into the Catholic Faith by reading that book. I told him to add me to the list. I wonder if anyone else here is familiar with the work.
A Biblical covenant is not a legal piece of paperwork. It is the relationship of two people who have given themselves without reserve to each other. The Calvinist definition in the Westminster Shorter Catechism is totally devoid of this intimacy. Listen to its language:
Q: WHAT IS A COVENANT?
A: AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN TWO OR MORE PERSONS.
That’s it. Barren. There is nothing about love between two persons. There is nothing which indicates the action of one giving one’s self totally to the other. It is a legal contract and nothing more. And it is not a biblical covenant.
Ezek. 16: 8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
There is the definition of covenant, according to the Bible. The analogy we are given in Scripture is marriage – the beauty of two people giving themselves completely to one another in love. They make vows to one another. We seldom hear marriage described as “the covenant of marriage” anymore. But that is exactly the picture.
The children of this marriage covenant are born into a family covenant which has its own set of rules. These rules are set before them for their profit, and that the family might enjoy the best of family unity in love. It is the wise child (who is blessed with good parents, may I add) who does not rebel against the good, but in recognizing it, submits to it to receive the blessings of obedience. The covenant relationship of the parents produces life.
Just as it is inevitable that the union of man and woman (think back before contraception made sterility in marriage seem normal) should produce life, so the covenant of love between the members of the Godhead had to produce life. Union produces life, and God, by the very nature of Who He is in covenant between the members of the Godhead, must create. By His very nature, God creates life. Life is the result of covenant union. This is why the Catholic Church is correctly pro-life. We reflect the life giving nature of our Trinitarian God in unity. For the Catholic Church to ever sanction death would be to commit spiritual harlotry of the worst sort, for the representation of God’s character would be deeply marred. It is the gods of paganism who are the deliverers of death.
In the covenant of marriage the bride and groom, on the day of their union, make vows to each other with the understanding that there is a certain boundary, which if crossed, will break this covenant and render it null and void. Christ spoke of this boundary in Matthew:
Mt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Why only for this sin did Christ say that the wife may be put away? Because in the covenant, man and wife are made one flesh, so much so that the product of their physical union is one child with the features of both. Scripture says that we become one flesh in the sexual act, therefore, when one has intimacies with another in adultery, he has broken the physical and very real seal of unity, the physical joining which is the outward sign of the inner covenant relationship. Being harsh and mean with one’s mate does not do this. It may make you miserable to live with, but it does not break that unity and violate covenant vows of fidelity. It does not destroy the physical particulars of marriage which so distinctly show what a covenant is: a union of two people in love so profound that they become intimately joined one to another, both in body and in spirit.
This union is a shadow and type of the state of being between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from eternity past. They are One, yet Three in One. We are given the bond of marriage as a pattern of the heavenly union of the Blessed Trinity. If you understand the positive good of marriage with its blessings and love, you can then transfer, in a very limited way, the truths you find there to the relationship the Godhead enjoys. This is why God said that it was not good that man be alone – because Adam alone was no pattern of the divine covenant relationship between the persons of the Trinity. As the one created to be king over creation, Adam needed a completeness in relationship which was a shadow and type of the relationship of the Godhead in covenant. I believe that one of the worst features of hell will be the solitude, the total separation from the joy which comes in knowing and being known by one whom you love and who loves you. It is the rare (and usually mentally unbalanced) person who is happy with no human contact at all. Even the monks did not go to the desert to seek complete solitude. No, they went out there to find a greater depth in loving God than they could experience in the hustle of the noisy world. It is solitude which seeks a more fulfilling unity. It was not solitude they sought, it was He Who is love.
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Jeanniiie September 26th, 2012 11:18 am :
Thank you. Lovely conversion story. Lovely comments. I am comforted by the fact that Jesus wrote nothing, save what He traced with His finger on the sand before Him. I am comforted He meant for me to spend more time on my knees in adoration, confession, communion, serving my brother as living the faith lovingly invites.
Christopher Lake September 26th, 2012 2:57 pm :
Dan (re:#114),
Thanks for your question about resources concerning the Reformation. As you’ve seen above, John and David have given you some recommendations, and I know that they would not steer you in a wrong direction. In addition, I’m going to recommend some other resources, including one that may seem quite counter-intuitive.
The Reformed apologist James White has a book entitled “The Roman Catholic Controversy” that I believe contains some of the strongest articulations of why Reformed Christians, historically, have objected to Catholic belief and practice– or, I should say, to *their Reformed understanding(s) of* Catholic belief and practice (which have not always been accurate).
The reason that I recommend White’s book is that I think it could be very helpful for you, as a Catholic, to actually “get inside the head of” a strongly anti-Catholic Protestant and see the thought processes at work. When you read James White’s views, I believe it will be much easier for you to understand Reformed Protestantism and the Reformation as a whole. The Reformation was based, partially, on protests against things that actually were objectively wrong (such as the selling of indulgences in the medieval era), but it was based much more, ultimately, on Luther’s *misunderstandings of* Catholic teachings in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition– misunderstandings that have been passed down to many, many generations of Protestants. In “The Roman Catholic Controversy,” you will see many of these misunderstandings laid out by a Protestant apologist himself.
However, at the same time that you read James White’s book, I also recommend that you read some strong Catholic resources which correct and refute his misunderstandings. To Martin Luther and other Reformers, the heart of the Reformation was the question of justification– meaning, how we sinful people can be “right with,” and in a right relationship with, a perfect, holy God. James White goes into this issue, from his Reformed understanding, in his book. *However*, so that White’s book will not damage your faith, I also recommend that you pick up a great, great book on the issue of justification by a Catholic apologist, James Akin. The book is “The Salvation Controversy.” It explains very well, from Scripture, why we Catholics believe what we do about faith needing agape (which *entails* works) in order for us to be justified before God. “The Salvation Controversy” is possibly the best response (other than the early Church Fathers’ and their exegesis of Scripture) to Protestant objections to Catholicism on justification.
James White also has many objections to the Papacy and to Catholic belief and practice concerning Mary. In that light, as you read his book, I also recommend that you read “Four Witnesses: The Early Church in Her Own Words,” by Rod Bennett, a former Protestant who became Catholic. This book has many, many passages from the early Church Fathers which show that the early Church was the Catholic Church and did not resemble Protestantism in crucial ways.
Another very helpful book to refute White’s claims is “Born Catholic, Born Again Fundamentalist,” by David Currie, another Catholic convert from Protestantism. This book appeals almost entirely to Scripture to defend Catholic beliefs and to refute almost every possible Protestant objection to Catholicism. This book should be in every serious Catholic library (no exaggeration there!), particularly for Catholics who want to defend their faith, from Scripture, against Protestant objections.
Finally, these books are written on a bit of a higher level than anything else that I’ve mentioned here, but in order to further understand (and refute) Protestant objections to Catholic Marian beliefs, I recommend “Daughter Zion: Meditations on the Church’s Marian Belief,” by Pope Benedict XVI (written while he was Cardinal Ratzinger) and “Mary: The Church at the Source,” co-written by Hans Urs von Balthasar and Cardinal Ratzinger.
I hope that I haven’t overwhelmed you with too many resources here! If finances are tight for you at the moment (as they often are for me these days!), and you can’t afford to buy all of these books, I would recommend that you start with a simultaneous reading of “The Roman Catholic Controversy” (from the Protestant side) and “Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic” (from the Catholic side, which covers and refutes many of the objections in James White’s book). Then, move on to “The Salvation Controversy” and the other books.
I hope this has been helpful! Thanks for the question, brother!
Christopher Lake September 26th, 2012 3:03 pm :
P.S. to Dan: I meant to say “John Thayer Jensen” and “Kenneth Howell” at the beginning of my reply to you. Both of these men are very knowledgable about Catholicism and the Reformation, and I would definitely check out the resources that they recommended (and my recommendations too, of course, to the extent that you have the time and the finances!).
Christopher Lake September 26th, 2012 3:10 pm :
All Catholics here,
I humbly request your prayers, as I will be giving my “Catholic conversion/reversion story” tonight for my parish men’s group. My story is quite tumultuous, and revisiting some of my past (from childhood to the present day) will probably be difficult, especially in front of a group of men– men being socialized, as we are in the U.S. especially, to not talk much about painful personal things. I want to be a blessing to these men, to the glory of God, and in the service of Christ and His Church. Thank you for your prayers.
mateo September 26th, 2012 3:17 pm :
Bless you, Mr. Stellman. Many things in your article resonate with me, and what you have mentioned about the issue of “autonomy” really strikes home to this particular ex-apostate “revert”. I was particularly struck by your comment about the Protestants that can never reconcile with the Catholic Church because they “treasure too much their exegetical autonomy”.
Men who “treasure too much their exegetical autonomy” – it seems to me that this exactly describes Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Menno Simmons!
I, as a self-described Reformed non-evangelical, considered the distinction between Solo- and Sola Scriptura as absolutely essential to my own spiritual identity. … Therefore as one can imagine, when I was confronted with Catholic claims that called this crucial distinction into question, it was a sucker-punch of epic proportions.
Ouch! I know from experience that it hurts to see the truth that “when I submit, so long as I agree, the one to whom I submit is me.” All heretics and schismatics are willing to submit on the basis of “so long as I agree”. Even apostates “submit” on the basis of “so long as I agree”, and I speak from experience on that matter.
If I really am the final temporal authority for determining what interpretations of the scriptures I will or won’t accept, then I am also the ultimate temporal authority for determining what I am conscious bound to accept as orthodox religious belief. But how can I claim that I am being “scriptural” if I claim that each individual Christian gets to decide for himself what constitutes orthodox religious belief? Where are the scriptures that teach that each individual Christian is endowed with an autonomous authority for determining what constitutes orthodox religious belief?
… [the Catholic Church] demands that the seeker relinquish the one thing above all others that offers him confidence, namely, his own autonomy.
Amen! It is a good thing to give up one’s autonomy – “whosoever would save his life shall lose it”.
I find that this charge is the one usually leveled by Protestants against the Catholic Church, and people like me: we are on a “quest for illegitimate religious certainty.”
Sheesh! When, exactly, does one cross the line and come to posses an illegitimate desire to know what constitutes orthodox Christian belief?
Welcome home Mr. Stellman!
Dan Soares September 26th, 2012 3:21 pm :
Thank you Christopher for that detailed response. By way of introduction, I was raised Catholic, but left the church in my early twenties (after a conversion experience) for evangelicalism. It’s only in the last couple of years that I (inexplicably, in my mind) have felt myself being drawn back to Catholicism and have been reading more source material to investigate their claims this time than I did the first time around.
I’m a regular reader at this site and have to say that I am very impressed by the patient and charitable way Catholics respond to their detractors. It speaks volumes to their faith.
I already have two of David Currie’s books – “Born Catholic, Born Again Fundamentalist” and “Rapture”, both of which were excellent. I ordered Karl Adam’s “Roots of the Reformation” this morning from the Coming Home Network. I’m also reading through the Catechism. In time, I will also look at the other resources you recommended. I listen to Catholic Radio daily now and while I am still committed to serving the church we go to as a family, with each day I find more glaring inadequacies in their theology.
I guess it’s only a matter of time :-)
Dan
Aaron Goodrich September 26th, 2012 3:24 pm :
Jason and Family, welcome home!
My wife and I were received into full communion with the Church at Easter 2011. We came from the PCA and caused quite the stir when we left. The chink in my Reformed armor that grew and grew was the realization that so much of the Reformed world insisted on understanding Jesus in light of Paul instead of the other way around. It seems from your article that you had the same realization.
My wife and I attend a Latin Mass parish and I don’t know if there is one in your area but I would highly recommend seeing the Extraordinary Form of the Mass if you get the chance; it is beautiful and timeless.
Shalom,
Aaron Goodrich
Burton September 26th, 2012 3:34 pm :
Jason,
I can see by the intensity of the discussion here, at some Reformed sites and your own blog that you are spending significant time responding to numerous comments and questions. Thanks ahead of time for addressing mine.
I have spent many evenings over the past few years discussing these issues with my PCA elders and other friends. I had begun to question the principled means by which our tradition defines orthodoxy and schism. (Solo Scriptura had long since become philosophically implausible for me, and I have been grateful to be a part of a church tradition that emphasizes the importance of defining truth through the lens of the tradition and experience of a wider historical body of believers.) The nearly universal initial response to my questions has been the implausibility of the RCC’s claim to represent an historically consistent, monolithic magisterium capable faithfully and infallibly adjudicating the clear dividing line between heresy and orthodoxy. Given my lack of expertise, I am somewhat at the mercy of the experts on either side of the argument regarding the historical plausibility of the Roman claim. What strikes me is the starkly opposing conclusions arrived at when presumably evaluating the same data. You say the RCC’s authority claims are historically plausible. My pastor states (emphatically) the opposite. I certainly don’t have the time or capability to do the primary source work necessary to evaluate these opposing views.
I would guess that at some point not too long ago you would have placed yourself in the “historically implausible” camp. Was there some specific line of historical study that changed your mind?
Burton
Russ Rentler MD September 26th, 2012 3:36 pm :
Christopher, will say prayers and will offer up our anxiety for you as we give our conversion story tonite to an rcia class . God bless
Christopher Lake September 26th, 2012 5:33 pm :
Dan,
I made a mistake on the name of David Currie’s book: it is titled “Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic.” I simply mixed up the order of the words “Fundamentalist” and “Catholic” in the title. The book is a very strongly Scriptural account of the author’s reasons for moving from being a seminary-educated evangelical Protestant to being Scripturally convinced of the claims and teachings of the Catholic Church.
Jason Stellman September 26th, 2012 8:40 pm :
Burton,
I have spent many evenings over the past few years discussing these issues with my PCA elders and other friends. I had begun to question the principled means by which our tradition defines orthodoxy and schism. (Solo Scriptura had long since become philosophically implausible for me, and I have been grateful to be a part of a church tradition that emphasizes the importance of defining truth through the lens of the tradition and experience of a wider historical body of believers.)
Hey man, good to meet ya. I’ve seen you comment here quite a bit over the past while.
I trust you have read Bryan’s and Neal’s demolition of the supposed distinction between Solo and Sola? I think it addresses your point above, as it shows that the position of someone like Mathison devolves into Solo in about three seconds’ time.
The nearly universal initial response to my questions has been the implausibility of the RCC’s claim to represent an historically consistent, monolithic magisterium capable faithfully and infallibly adjudicating the clear dividing line between heresy and orthodoxy. Given my lack of expertise, I am somewhat at the mercy of the experts on either side of the argument regarding the historical plausibility of the Roman claim. What strikes me is the starkly opposing conclusions arrived at when presumably evaluating the same data. You say the RCC’s authority claims are historically plausible. My pastor states (emphatically) the opposite. I certainly don’t have the time or capability to do the primary source work necessary to evaluate these opposing views.
I would guess that at some point not too long ago you would have placed yourself in the “historically implausible” camp. Was there some specific line of historical study that changed your mind?
It’s easy for a Protestant to try to poke holes in the Catholic position (in fact, many have made an industry out of the attempt). But what I would encourage you to do is ask your pastor to make a positive case for Sola Scriptura arising in the context of the immediately post-apostolic church (the church with no universally-recognized canon). Would he admit that there came a moment immediately following the death of John in which the whole church suddenly realized that the way things had worked for the past 60 years (with the word of God consisting of both oral and written teaching) had ceased, despite the fact that the apostles nowhere gave any indication that such a thing would occur?
My experience tells me that if you take away Mary and the pope, Reformed folks run out of stuff to complain about pretty quickly (which is why a few of them have suggested I just become Orthodox).
So my point about Rome’s claims being “historically plausible” (those words were carefully chosen) was simply that a study of the history of the early church cannot prove Catholicism any more than it can prove Orthodoxy. At some point the empirical evidence’s ability to prove things ceases, and the need for humble faith comes into play. Are Rome’s historical claims scientifically demonstrable? Of course not. But philosophically the only two serious options are the CC and EO, and of those two, Rome is much more plausible, at least to me.
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