Crossed The Tiber

An Evangelical Converts to Catholicism

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Location: Pennsylvania, United States

I was born into the Catholic faith. At 14, I was "born again" and found Jesus personally but lost His Church. After thirty years as an evangelical protestant, I have come full circle to find that He has been there all the time, in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I wish others to find the beauty and truth of the Catholic faith as I have found.

Friday, December 01, 2006

The Reformation of My Blog Traffic




Normally, I get about 80 to 100 visits to my blog daily. On Wednesday night my blog address was posted on a protestant (anti-Catholic) apologist's website. A disgruntled commenter sent "a tip." I was referred to as an apostate on this website. For whatever reason, this inspired many folks with a similar theological twist as the apologist to visit my blog and share their "love of Christ" with me. Sometimes theology can bring out the worst in people and I must conclude that a theology is only "working for you" if it inspires the person reformed by it to be more like Christ. The comments I received would make me question whether this theology is helping some of these folks or hurting them. Christ told us that whatever is spoken in secret will be shouted from the housetops. Nevertheless it appears from many of the comments I received (that I won't post) that being held accountable for every idle word we say doesn't apply to the blogosphere when the object is a blogger with a different theological position (particularly Catholic). Maybe "once saved always saved" isn't such a great idea if the people holding that view feel they won't be held accountable for their words and actions.

Is that a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal ringing in my ears?

Read my Personal Conversion Story here.

A Calvinist becomes Catholic. Read his story here.
Another Calvinist becomes Catholic (Does that mean they were never saved?hmmm)
Read his story here.
Dr. Albert Mohler Agrees With Rome Regarding Artificial Contraception


32 Comments:

Blogger Prodigal Daughter said...

The most depressing thing about all this TJ is that your hit meter increased six-fold with people who hate every thing you stand for and aren't afraid to say it. I'm sorry that the meter wasn't impacted in this way by seekers of the Truth of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which you so diligently and sacrificially labor to present on this wonderful blog.

December 01, 2006 5:13 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

Thanks Prod!
Yeah , but Jesus did say we would suffer persecution for the Gospel! I just didn't reealize it would be more from people I consider Christian brothers than from "the world."

I like these quotes:

"There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church." Archbishop Fulton Sheen

“I have been educated to enmity toward everything that is Catholic, and sometimes, in consequence of this, I find it much easier to discover Catholic faults than Catholic virtues.”
Mark Twain, “Innocents Abroad"

"There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don't know it."
GK. Chesterton

December 01, 2006 5:50 PM  
Blogger Joyful Catholics said...

"If you want people to stay the same, tell them what they want to hear. If you want to improve them, tell them what they need to know." Bishop Fulton Sheen

and I add this: "What they choose to believe, is their choice. For good our ill. That's when the dust falls off our boots, and we move on to the next town."

I used to get a little down not really too discouraged being ignored...(check out my blog to see how ignored I am)ha ha! Now, I realize that's part of my small cross to bear. I'm being ignored by my friends in the evangelical world now that I've seemingly fallen for that "Catholic stuff." I'm ignored at times, by my family. Or is it simply that no one knows what to say, so they're just letting it simmer on the back burner. "Outta sight, outta mind and they don't have to confront their own hearts/souls/ minds about TRUTH. Or, for whatever reason, it's difficult to post a comment so they don't. I'm not sure, but whatever it is, I do most appreciate your lone comments, TeeJ. You're my "go to guy" when I need some encouragment and my one faithful viewer...so thanks bunches!

susie

December 01, 2006 6:45 PM  
Anonymous Nancy said...

For folks who pride themselves on "sola scriptura", here's a verse some of them apparently missed:

1 John 4:20 - If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

December 01, 2006 7:11 PM  
Anonymous Mike said...

Tiber Jumper:

It's funny...I found your blog because of "Dr." White's website, and only because I check in now and then as a Catholic to see what he's up to. What a great blog you have.

Do you think it would be morally permissible to post a few of those comments? Part of my is really curious, but all of me guards against judgementalism. I'm not sure what's right. It could be instructional, but it could fan the flames too.

December 01, 2006 7:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry about all the negative posts you got. Here's to lots of good visitors and commentors in the future.

December 01, 2006 7:42 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

Nancy thanks for the post!
Interesting thing is several of the folks who have written to me have informed me that I have turned from the truth to follow a gospel of error and am not their brother!

Therefore ,this Scripture doesn't apply to them because I am not their brother in their theology. One of the commenters continues to insist that I don't have peace in Christ because I don't ascribe to his narrow and peculiar interpretation of scripture.
How does he know the heart of God?
In the New Testament, I don't remember reading that we should be constantly judging whether other people are saved or not and telling them in their face you can't be saved because you don't ascribe to their theology which is not even widely accepted in Protestantism.
All we can try to do is not answer back in kind but admittedly it's hard.
I am thankful for Eucharistic Adoration tonite and Mass .
God bless you!

December 01, 2006 7:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pax

December 01, 2006 8:17 PM  
Anonymous Nancy said...

I don't think Jesus lets them off the hook. If they don't think you are a brother ... well, Jesus did say to love your enemies ... lol

When I was an evangelical I never subscribed to that kind of anti-Catholicism. Maybe it was because I spent all my elementary and high school education in Catholic schools, even though I wasn't Catholic. So I always regarded them respectfully, even when I didn't necessarily agree with all of their beliefs. And now that I'm on the other side of the Tiber I still have evangelical friends who are trying their best to serve Jesus and don't subscribe to that nonsense. And I love them dearly.

A blessed Advent to you, TJ.

December 01, 2006 8:31 PM  
Blogger O=onionboy.ca+luminousmiseries.ca said...

I'm grateful I converted. Peace to you.

December 01, 2006 9:42 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

"So I always regarded them respectfully, even when I didn't necessarily agree with all of their beliefs. And now that I'm on the other side of the Tiber I still have evangelical friends who are trying their best to serve Jesus and don't subscribe to that nonsense. And I love them dearly.


God bless you Nancy! It's like when the Pope prayed with the Grand Mufti, he wasn't saying, I agree with your theology, but "I respect you." God calls us to respect everyone because they are made in the image of God regardless of their differing theological assertions.

December 01, 2006 9:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tiber, my Dear Friend,

You know me, you know something of my theology, and you know my heart. It breaks at the thought of the grief you're getting. As of late, I find myself having less issues with Catholic doctrine than I do with Dispensational doctrine and character. I think you should consider posting some of the more, shall we say, "charitable" comments from your Christian character-challenged readers, if you think there is anything at all instructive to be found in them. You will always be my Christian brother.

All God's Best,

Pilgrimsarbour

December 01, 2006 9:56 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

Thanks Susie for the posts!
Believe me, I'm not sure this is the kind of traffic that you want, but I pray God might use something that will soften their hearts to His Church. Hey it happened to me not so long ago!

December 01, 2006 10:05 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Daughter said...

Pilgrimsarbour,

If only you knew what your comment means to TJ and I. If only all non-Catholic Christians could be as gracious and charitable as you and disagree with doctrine instead of attacking their "brothers in Christ."

December 01, 2006 10:11 PM  
Blogger Adoro Te Devote said...

I have been blessed in that most of my Protestant friends and acquaintances are not anti-Catholic. They clearly do not agree with our beliefs, but we have a mutual respect for each other.

And another thing you said really deserves a comment; as Catholics, we see ALL people, from the unborn to even the Satanist as a child of God, thus they are our brothers and sisters, no matter where they err in their ways, theology, or lack of theology.

Even the most debased murdering soul is still a child created in the likeness and image of God.

And yes, that's hard to swallow sometimes, but our Lord DEMANDS that we recognize this fact and practice charity even towards these souls.

I'm thinking a little Catholicism and writings of the Saints could do a great deal to bring the erring "Christian in name-but-not-theology" souls to the feet of Jesus.

December 01, 2006 10:18 PM  
Anonymous Nancy said...

In case you didn't know, Marcus Grodi's guest on the Journey Home show this past week was a former youth minister at one of the more well-known evangelical mega-churches who decided to cross the Tiber. You should still be able to download it from EWTN's podcast page for a couple of days anyway.

December 02, 2006 10:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, cleaving true to the Gospel, in it's entirety, is bound to put you in the crosshairs from both left and right, from liberal and conservative. That's just one cross of many out there.

esto vigilans et confirma cetera quae moritur

December 02, 2006 1:57 PM  
Anonymous Dozie said...

>>It's funny...I found your blog because of "Dr." White's website, and only because I check in now and then as a Catholic to see what he's up to>>.

Same situation. I check White's site to see what new he is whining about. For some time, he seems to have left the Catholic Church alone but I know he can't control himself for too long.

Dozie

December 02, 2006 3:13 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

The interesting thing is that my original post was not intended directed at Dr. White or his ministry.
Some commenter posted a quote from him on the com box and I thought it would be interesting to juxtapose this definition of sola scriptura with a "holy book", the Koran.(I could have used the book of Mormon) Unfortunately the whole point of the exercise was lost on the folks who viewed it as an attack on Dr. White and Sacred Scripture which both Catholics and Protestants recognize as the Word of God (for different reasons).

December 02, 2006 5:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No surprise that the Calvinists continue to be accused of antinomianism.

December 02, 2006 9:21 PM  
Anonymous Theo said...

All:

I humbly caution us all (myself included) to beware of and resist temptations to judge those who judge us.

As Tiber hinted, they believe that they are defending the sanctity and holiness of God's own message, which as His Elect, they alone grasp in fullness.


I believe it is unwise to say of these, our brothers and sisters, that they are "hateful" or subject to judgment for failing to "love their brothers who they can see." To do so is to do the very same thing--and perhaps even more so: for we Catholics profess that all Christians are indeed our brothers and sisters in Christ--whether they know it, or like it, or not.

We must have the same attitude that was in Christ, and humble ourselves as obedient servants.

We must pray and hope that their motivations are for love of God and zeal for his truth, even when its execution offends us. We must encourage every step taken in understanding and in faith. We must avoid breaking the bruised reed. We must not extinguish the smoldering wick.

No argument, no pleading, no appealing to reason, no appealing to the very same authority that they claim as their sole authority can soften their hearts. Knowing this, would anyone honestly expect that sarcasm or insult (no matter how sugar-coated or no matter how indirect) will do so?

Rather, if we are to witness to the truth, let it be this: that we love one another. As is true for all of us, it is by the Holy Spirit that any come to the Table of the Lord. It is by God's grace that they will someday come into full communion with the remainder of the holy Church that they (and often we also) fail to recognize as the mystical body of Christ (whether they come while in this life or the next).

If *we* say that we know God who we cannot see, and hate our brothers who we can see, there is no truth in us.

This I submit with the knowledge of and repentance from my own sins toward my brothers.
With humbly prayer to you for your prayers to Jesus, I remain
Your Brother in Christ,
--Theo

December 04, 2006 6:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shouldn't you be thanking Dr. White for your recent traffic? After all, if I had not been a regular reader of James' blogs, I would have never known you existed :-D

December 04, 2006 6:50 PM  
Blogger Samuel J Bell III said...

Well I think Dr White was correct in his defintion of you as an apostate here let me show you censes I doubt you will see it for yourself

"Next, Tiber Jumper noted he was identified as an apostate by yours truly, and that is quite true. Is there something about this that is in error? His entire name, Tiber Jumper, seems to proclaim something about his rejection of his former beliefs, yes? And what term do you use of someone who proclaims they professed faith A, and then denies faith A? An apostate from faith A, yes? So it seems. But given that Mr. Jumper then seems to seek to garner some element of sympathy from his audience, I have to wonder just what he meant by noting the term and putting it in bold face?"
JAMES WHITE From the A&O Web site

All I can say Is James Always Tell You how the Cow ate the Cabbage
SOLAS

December 04, 2006 10:25 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

God bless you Samuel
I think I have to go take Theo's advice on this one:

"We must pray and hope that their motivations are for love of God and zeal for his truth, even when its execution offends us. We must encourage every step taken in understanding and in faith. We must avoid breaking the bruised reed. We must not extinguish the smoldering wick.

No argument, no pleading, no appealing to reason, no appealing to the very same authority that they claim as their sole authority can soften their hearts. Knowing this, would anyone honestly expect that sarcasm or insult (no matter how sugar-coated or no matter how indirect) will do so?

Rather, if we are to witness to the truth, let it be this: that we love one another. As is true for all of us, it is by the Holy Spirit that any come to the Table of the Lord. It is by God's grace that they will someday come into full communion with the remainder of the holy Church that they (and often we also) fail to recognize as the mystical body of Christ (whether they come while in this life or the next).

If *we* say that we know God who we cannot see, and hate our brothers who we can see, there is no truth in us."

Thanks Theo for the words of wisdom.

December 04, 2006 10:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps Roman Catholics don’t understand that as a Protestant I don’t hate people that believe in another Religion but I do hate the Religions that have blinded their eyes to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. I will defend the Gospel against the Religion that was the instigator of the Inquisition and the Religion that instigates Jihad. I will contend with any Religion that does that in accordance with Jude 1:3, 1 Peter 3:15, 2 Corinthians 11:4.

Jude 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

A Good website all Catholics should at least check out is www.bereanbeacon.org

December 04, 2006 11:18 PM  
Anonymous JJMONDE said...

Hello,
I am a french christian and former catholic and I cross the Tiber on the other side.
All I want to said is I have no shame to be a former catholic, I don't have some anger toward catholic but I don't share yours beliefs anymore.
For the subject of the polemic with J.White, All I can said, it's you start all the things with a forgery : "Turns out that the quote from Islamic apologist (Jaimete Wahabbi) was really a quote from Dr. James White, well known anti-Catholic Calvinist apologist". You profess your love for the others but even if Mr White don't share your opinion, you lie and subvert his writing. When I saw the fruits of all these, I saw no good things and identify an Islamic apologist with a christian apologist is not a thing you have to be proud.
Bye and be Blessed

December 05, 2006 5:48 AM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

December 05, 2006 7:34 AM  
Blogger Samuel J Bell III said...

Tiber Jumper,
I noticed you still use the Bible as a final athority. Is it because you still gling to it as the word of truth or becuse you use what you can out of it to try and use it to fit your own thoughts? Just wondering.
SOLAS

December 05, 2006 12:21 PM  
Blogger The Unseen One said...

As a Baptist, one who as "crossed the Mississippi", if you will... ;)
I always find it disturbing when many of my fellow Fundimentalists / Evangelicals berate Roman Catholics out of hand. I'm sorry that you had to go through that, and I just wanted to tell you that not all of us follow the "Jack Chick" model.

Christ died for all who accept Him, and many of the people I've known who have exhibited the fruits of salvation have been Roman Catholic.

God Bless.

December 05, 2006 1:00 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

Thanks for the nice note UO!

December 05, 2006 1:35 PM  
Blogger Tiber Jumper said...

Samuel said:
"I noticed you still use the Bible as a final athority. Is it because you still gling to it as the word of truth or becuse you use what you can out of it to try and use it to fit your own thoughts?

I suppose Sam I could ask you a similar question. I noticed you claim to use the Bible as your final authority(whatever that means), do you use what you can get out of it to try and fit your own thoughts and pet doctrines. I mean let's be real my friend, do the doctrines of double predestination, limited atonement, irresistable grace etc just come jumping off the pages of Scripture when you read it? They didn't for me(and the majority of christendom through the ages) even though I was a Bible only evangelical for 30 years. More close to the reality is that each of us uses the Bible along with our own chosen teaching authority. No one can read and interpret it in a totally objective fashion. When you read Sacred Scripture you will tend to see things from Calvin's view. When I now read it, I will tend to see it more from a catholic perspective. I believe the Sacred Scripture is God given and inerrant provided to us via the Church Jesus started. I know you disagree, and that's ok.

The issue I have with folks like yourself is that you claim it's ok to get your own ideas from the Word of God, but if your Catholic, that's suddenly unacceptable. God bless and have a Merry Christmas!

December 05, 2006 1:49 PM  
Blogger Samuel J Bell III said...

Tiber Jumper said... I suppose Sam I could ask you a similar question. I noticed you claim to use the Bible as your final authority(whatever that means),"

Yes I do use it as the Final authority.
What Final Authority means is that the Bible not man tells me how to believe.

Tiber Jumper said... "do you use what you can get out of it to try and fit your own thoughts and pet doctrines."

No I dont do that. I let the Bible the word of the living Lord tell me what He wants me to believe. I also do not add to it or take away from it.

Tiber Jumper said..."I mean let's be real my friend, do the doctrines of double predestination, limited atonement, irresistable grace etc just come jumping off the pages of Scripture when you read it? They didn't for me(and the majority of christendom through the ages) even though I was a Bible only evangelical for 30 years."

As a matter of fact the Doctrins of Grace do Jump off the Page lets look at some ok
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Double Predestination if you want to call it that. But you see I belive it is predestination unto life. And That it is the freedom of God to Choose.
Lets countinue

Jhn 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

So who is Jesus Praying for here.

Let see some more

Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)


Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom 9:14 ¶ What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.


Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.


Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.


Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.


Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?


Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?


Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I could show you more but I dont want to take up to much space.

Also you are wrong about this stament "They didn't for me(and the majority of christendom through the ages) even though I was a Bible only evangelical for 30 years" I will refer you to the debate between Augustine and Pelagius. Iam The true Augstinian and you are the True Pelagian.

Tiber Jumper said... More close to the reality is that each of us uses the Bible along with our own chosen teaching authority. No one can read and interpret it in a totally objective fashion."

That is untrue. There is such a thing as Biblical Hermnutics. I Sugest You take a class on this. Also There is such a thing as Exegesis and Eisegesis. Let the People deside for themselves who pratices what...Catholics or Protestants?

Tiber Jumper said..."When you read Sacred Scripture you will tend to see things from Calvin's view."

You are incorect in this. I was raised Church of Christ So at one time I believed pretty close to you. Even on the Regenative Baptisim thing(just differd with you on the Age). I was convicted by the Word OF GOD. And yes now I am a Refomed Baptist.

Tiber Jumper said..."When I now read it, I will tend to see it more from a catholic perspective. I believe the Sacred Scripture is God given and inerrant provided to us via the Church Jesus started. I know you disagree, and that's ok."

I will just tell you that the church is full of falable men. So what you are saying is that falable men can tell God what He Said and what He ment.
You are right I do desagree with that interpetation.

"The issue I have with folks like yourself is that you claim it's ok to get your own ideas from the Word of God, but if your Catholic, that's suddenly unacceptable. God bless and have a Merry Christmas!"
I Dont Do that! and I also hope you have A wonderful Christmas as well. Have fun in the mass.:{)

All and All I hope you see what I mean.
SOLAS

December 05, 2006 6:15 PM  

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